I live in Northern Arizona, and if I want one of these and also want phone coverage in places other than the major cities, I am going to have to go with Sprint. I also would like to be able to use it on my home WiFi network. From Sprint's point of view, why whould they want to disable the WiFi?

I am assuming if I could even find an uncrippled CDMA version from a third party, neither Sprint nor Verizon would acitvate it, right?

It's either one of two things:

1. They are unable to figure out how to keep the WiFi radio from interfering with the CDMA radio used by the phone.

2. Sprint and Verizon aren't selling WiFi, so they requested it be left out, since thats one less thing to support.

I don't know which it is, but it very well could be #1.

Most likely, 1xRTT/EVDO IS the reason why WiFi is left out.
You're supposed to be getting speeds of 100/300 kbps using their networks, on which they charge a premium for, and therefore they want you to be using THEIR service, not hotspots or home WiFi.
Business and sense, at our expense

If that really is the reason why Sprint and Verizon are leaving out WiFi that is just complete stupidity which will hurt them a hell of lot more than help them.

If people are using Hot Spots (which are just as stupid*), or need wireless access from the PDA2K they will just get a SDIO WiFI device and use it.

I know somebody who is currently with Verizon right now. If they pull that crap then he will just wait till one is available on market and not crippled. That will certainly not help Verizon's sales. I can imagine someone wanting a version without a camera, but no WiFi? Those without it are not worth anything.

I also highly doubt that Verizon would refuse to activate a device that they did not sell. To not sell it or support it, I can understand that. To not activate it.... I dunno.


* Hot Spots are totally beyond retarded do their outrageous pricing structure. Maybe if free woopie came with it (or 20% of all frappachino's) then it might be worth it. I myself am opting for the 79.99$ a month unlimited internet via the aircards. You got internet now with a vastly expanded coverage area for 1 or 2 times the cost of Hot Spot. If you choose T-Mobile for it, then it beats Hot Spot WITHOUT QUESTION.

I've been told by verizon that when using one of their 1xRTT/EVDO cards I should turn off any onboard wifi since it interferes with the 1x/EVDO signal - I suspect that's why it's not present in the CDMA version of this device.

It's not like a customer for one of these phones won't be buying some kind of data package - if they aren't there's much better non-phone PDAs out there in the same price range

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I honestly don't think it's an interference issue.
If that was the case, we'd know about it, the same way we heard about interference issues from simultaneous WiFi and Bluetooth usage a couple years ago. And even that, has been pretty much remedied now. WiFi is at the 2.4 GHz range.
The last I heard CDMA/PCS/1xRTT/EV-DO are using 800/1900 GHz frequencies.

I think that it makes no business sense for them. Both Sprint and Verizon are selling their 3G data networks. Their rationale is that for a handheld device, true 3G data rates (EV-DO ~300kbps) is all that you need. And for that they'll charge you upwards of $70 for unlimited data. For now that is....

The only unfortunate issue with this ordeal is that, while on data mode, you cannot receive voice calls (drops to voicemail).

In that way GPRS behaves a little better; the data link is frozen and voice is allowed to come in.
And with the latest all-in-one units like the h6315 or the imate PDA2k, you can be on the bluetooth headset taking the call, while surfing via WiFi. Works quite well, if only it didn't use battery life so fast, specially on the PDA2k.

The quest for the ultimately converged device rages on

Not quite as bad as all that - Verizon charges $45 for unlimited data on their smartphone plans, and Sprint only charges $35 ($20 for Vision, and another $15 for PDA).

I'm just repeating what I was told about interference. I really haven't had a chance to check, never used an EVDO card in a machine with an active WiFi radio at the same time. And jsut because they're in different bands doens't mean they can't interfere...

EV-DO won't interfere with voice usage, I understand - teh DO part means data only; and means it's a sperate subsystem (so you can take data and voice at the same time). Won't help if you're on 1xRTT, of course.

Not putting WiFi in means they don't have to support it, admittedly; and supporting WiFi is a bear, given the vast range of mostly-compatible stuff out there (I still can't get one of my laptops to work with a friend's access point).

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im pretty sure do stands for data optimized...and i dont think you can do both data and voice even with ev-do

To my knowledge you can only do data and voice at the same time with Class A GSM. I don't even know of any GSM phones that support it either.

If there is a CDMA/WCDMA equivalent of Class A GSM I have not heart of that as well.

While it is true that Class A GSM is required to do both voice and data at the same time. The latest GSM phones use Class B? or some other class that supports maintaining the data connection while voice is used. This means that you can be connected to the Internet using GPRS and if someone calls you, the phone will ring and you can answer it. When you disconnect the call, you don't have to reconnect to the GPRS connection to continue downloading data. The difference is you can't download data while using the voice portion of the connection.

I just tried this with my GSM PDA2K, and it works as advertised. I don't believe that current CDMA/WCDMA supports this, so if you are using the data portion of the device your callers will go to voice mail.

You are correct.

Class A GSM allows both data and voice at the same time. Never seen a phone listed as Class A GSM yet.

Class B GSM allows you to suspend the data connection while using the voice connection. Your phone should ring on an incoming call while you are using your data connection.
XDA, XDA II, XDA III, HP i6315, MDA III, Treo 600, are all Class B. Most converged devices are at least Class B.

Class C GSM only allows you to use one at a time. If you are on the data connection, phone calls get sent over to voice mail period. If you attempt to make a phone call you will disconnect your data connection. A lot of older phones are like this.

I am not sure if CDMA/WCDMA does the same thing. For that matter, I have never heard or seen any similar breakdowns on CDMA/WCDMA and their functionality with data and voice. If anybody has any technical information regarding it, please post it here.

The i700 allows you to suspend the data connecting when taking a call.

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1xRTT will only reject a call while the data session is active. If it is dormant, the device can receive a voice call. Only if the device is actively exchanging data will the voice call be sent to voicemail. EV-DO should be the same way

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I emailed an iMate PDA2K user who posts on this site a bit and he said that his calls go to voice mail if he is on a GPRS data connection.

I specifically asked him this since I get so many voice calls going to voicemail on my Sprint Treo when it is downloading or checking emial throughout the day. I'd say I average about 2 to 4 calls per day that go to voice mail for this reason.

Has this not been the experience of you other PDA2K users?

That is my experience also.

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John

PDAPhoneHome Forum Moderator

Thanks.
There have been a number of people who have suggested that GSM / GPRS would solve this issue for me. Despite a number of other advantages / disadvantages this does not necessarily appear to be one of them.

Yeah, I don't know of a solution where you can "have your cake and eat it too" for constant data and voice services short of two separate devices.

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John

PDAPhoneHome Forum Moderator

I have heard this argued both ways. Personally, I think that Verizon and Sprint both told HTC they didn't want wifi on their EVDO phones (or they weren't going to pay for the additional design work needed to squeeze wifi into the CDMA version of the phone), and HTC figured well, over half our sales are going to be in North America so bye-bye wifi. I know HTC doesn't build them all, but they get royalties on every phone built with their design.

I saw a presentation by Qualcomm, and they said EV-DO stood for Evolution Data Optimized... As if it really matters...

Matt

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