FWIW, I don't see why a cap or end should be put on the donations. As more people acquire an i730, I think more people will want to donate, especially as they see the value that mrailing and others provide. However, what Convergent, mrailing, and others have said is worth repeating: Potential donors should view donations as a "thank you" for work done in the past, not as consideration (sorry for the legal term) for future services. If more money is raised than the cost of two i760s, the additional/excess funds could be spread out among the other major contributors to the forum. In that regard, we should wait and see who actually gets an i760 and then makes major contributions to the i760 forum.
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-Jay The Fine Print:Nothing in this post (or any of my other posts) is intended to constitute legal advice or the establishment of an attorney-client relationship. For purposes of this forum, I'm just another nerd like you. :-)
I understand what everyone's trying to say about spreading things out, but trust me... it is going to get very messy to try and figure out how to do the spreading once you start heading down that path. People come and go and may be very active for a period of time... disappear... come back... disappear... come back. While they are here they may kick butt and take names... but then over time someone else may be contributing more. Then how do you determine original contributions vs. replaying others' contributions. Its really tough to do.
Since this is a grass roots effort you are talking about, its up to the group how you guys want to do this, but I would suggest you target the two phones and leave it at that. These two guys have unique contributions in what they did for prior phones, which is therefore the reason why I think everyone wants to see them getting the phones as quickly as possible. It is unlikely that they are going to be found for less than full retail if bought out of the gate without a new plan... so the price is probably pretty solid. If its handled like mrailing suggested, then everyone will know where the total is vs. the goal.
I understand what everyone's trying to say about spreading things out, but trust me... it is going to get very messy to try and figure out how to do the spreading once you start heading down that path. People come and go and may be very active for a period of time... disappear... come back... disappear... come back. While they are here they may kick butt and take names... but then over time someone else may be contributing more. Then how do you determine original contributions vs. replaying others' contributions. Its really tough to do.
Since this is a grass roots effort you are talking about, its up to the group how you guys want to do this, but I would suggest you target the two phones and leave it at that. These two guys have unique contributions in what they did for prior phones, which is therefore the reason why I think everyone wants to see them getting the phones as quickly as possible. It is unlikely that they are going to be found for less than full retail if bought out of the gate without a new plan... so the price is probably pretty solid. If its handled like mrailing suggested, then everyone will know where the total is vs. the goal.
Convergent, Once again you're a very good business man.....
If this was my site, I would do the right thing and throw the mods a bone (buy the cell phone for them). You (and the members) will reap the benefits for years to come.
But then again, if the mods aren’t happy with this business model they’re always free to leave to a forum that dose throw their mods a bone.
One again where is that Pay Pal account? Lets raise the money for one cell phone ($750.00) and Convergent will kick in for the other one.
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VZW, It's 2009! Time to embrace technology, not suppress it. - oops too late I've moved on over to the iPhone w/ AT$T!
I totally agree with Mike (Convergent) on this---once we have the amount for 2 phones (mrailing and SuperDave--if SuperDave is on board) we need to shut off the link. No need to get into debates about what to do with the extra money..... Also, I see no need to have Convergent pony up for the 2nd phone if we get enough in donations.
I understand what everyone's trying to say about spreading things out, but trust me... it is going to get very messy to try and figure out how to do the spreading once you start heading down that path. People come and go and may be very active for a period of time... disappear... come back... disappear... come back. While they are here they may kick butt and take names... but then over time someone else may be contributing more. Then how do you determine original contributions vs. replaying others' contributions. Its really tough to do.
Since this is a grass roots effort you are talking about, its up to the group how you guys want to do this, but I would suggest you target the two phones and leave it at that. These two guys have unique contributions in what they did for prior phones, which is therefore the reason why I think everyone wants to see them getting the phones as quickly as possible. It is unlikely that they are going to be found for less than full retail if bought out of the gate without a new plan... so the price is probably pretty solid. If its handled like mrailing suggested, then everyone will know where the total is vs. the goal.
You've Converged me! Leave it at two phones and go with it. Where's the PayPal link?
I am fine with not being a part of this, I certainly never asked to be. If you would rather give money to others , please do so.
,Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by brassMONKEY
Not to get off on a rant here, but... I have had my 730 since the day it was released to b2b customers and you really couldnt put a $ amount on the assistance I have received from this site. The device wouldnt be close to the device I now have and love without this forum and the great people whom make up it's community. Having said that, the problem I have with the idea of donating (money or a 760 or whatever) to mrailing and SD is this... mrailing unquestionably is in a league of his own from a time invested/help given stand point. After mrailing, though, it gets tricky. Not to diminish what SD has done for the 730 thread, but there are others who have also invested countless hours developing tweaks and hacks. What about IvanLasston? Sleeve? Just to name a few. There are several others who are deserving for their forum contributions.
This is what I suggest... lets raise as much $ as possible. -Not cap contributions, not have a "end goal" of $1400, rather lets have $1400 be the goal by the 760 release. Once the 760 is released, this forum is going to be nuts. -It reminds me of March Madness... Heck, I'll probably take a day or two off work just to watch all the fireworks, and get my 760 headed in the right direction! -There will be several contributors, but a few "main" people will shine. I suggest we collectively "reward" as many of these cats as possible. Lets take care of mrailing first and foremost, but then lets take the remaining funds and distribute based on their contribution to the initial set up of the device. -Mrailing could decide who gets what. If it is anything like how the 730 was, it will be pretty obvious who really sets themselves apart in the initial phases of the 760. I'm sure mrailing could tell us right now who were the "main" contributors of the 730. -Lets continue to "pass the plate" at least through the initial stages of the device, when forum viewership is at a frenzy, and see who shines! On each "set up" type thread, mrailing could put a link to the paypal account and a brief description of where the funds will go. Of course that just my opinion, I could be wrong...
I am fine with not being a part of this, I certainly never asked to be. If you would rather give money to others , please do so.
,Dave
Please dont take what I said the wrong way, you are absolutely deserving...I just think are more than two people who should be included! Lets get that plate passing going!
First, this isn't a plea for a donation, as I have intentionally stayed out of this thread, but SD had some concerns, as did I, and we need these to be seen before donations are accepted.
I talked with SuperDave today, and he and I have the same concern. We don't want to be held responsible for a device that hasn't been released, and we only know rumor and speculation. We both don't want to be held to the expectation that all of the problems will be fixed, and all of your answers will be answered. So before donating, keep this in mind. If you want to donate, do it because you feel like we deserve it, and not because you are expecting something. I didn't ask SD directly, but I am going to assume he doesn't want to receive the i760 and have each of you saying "Fix this, I paid you for the i760." We don't know if there will be any problems, or if those problems can even be fixed. Dave has expressed that he is willing to help, but doesn't want to be held accountable to HAVE to help. I don't like speaking for other people, but I think that Dave would rather you not donate to him if you expect anything in return. I think he is appreciative of the gesture, and will be willing to accept the device as a gift, and something to hack and play with when time allows, but doesn't want any pressure because of it.
I am very much the same way. If/when we do post a PayPal link, don't hold us to anything. I have every intention of sticking in the forum of the device that I get, and if it's the i760 then I will be here. Sure as Convergent said above, anything can happen, but my immediate plans are to get the i760, find out everything I can about it, and work on making it a device I can use daily. As has always been the case, my day job comes first, since it pays the bills, and I do this merely because I love it.
So with that said, once a link is up, if you do want to donate, think about it being a gesture of what SD and I have done in the past, and "potentially" can do in the future.
__________________
-Michael
Need help setting up your i730/i830 or other WM2003/WM5 Phone, as well as the other hacks I have done, check out the MRailing Guides and Links
I think I am just going to pull out of this for now. I do not really like the way this thread went. When the i760 comes out if things need to be fixed and no one who has the phone can do it, then I am more then willing to accept the donations as I did with the i730. But, since we do not know if there is anything that even needs fixing I think it would be premature to accept donations for it. Regardless of what people say about it being a gift or for past service when I am given funds I feel very much responsible for fixing things. It is a hell of a lot of pressure, but, fortunately it is something I enjoy. However if the phone came out and there was nothing to be fixed, I would feel bad for accepting the funds. So for the time being, I will step aside.
I have always stayed out of these discussions when talking about the i730 way back when and now, but wanted to say something to the two of you.
Your efforts on the i730 made my phone useable. I am not complaining about Samsung or Verizon. Rather, I am thanking both of you. As Convergent said, you are unique contributors to this forum. Know how much I have appreciated all that you have done to make the phone an indispensible tool for my work and my play!
We have no idea how perfect or how flawed the i760 will be. While there are no guarantees, it SEEMS as those it will be released and we will get our hands on it. As with any computer I have ever had, there are lots of little tweaks that "optimize" it, that "personalize" it, that make it from a "box" to "mine."
I am not savvy how to do that with these complicated phones. I break out into cold sweats each time I venture into the system registry. I would much rather follow the lead of someone who knows what they are doing.
So...here is my take (though each of you needs to decide your own path). I would really like to donate money to give you each a phone as soon as it comes out. (I am willing and think its prudent to probably wait until it is REALLY announced. We would still have a good week to raise the money, wouldn't we?). Consider it a thank you gift, for all the work you have done.
If you find stuff worthy of fixing and you offer to share that with us, terrific. If you find ways of setting it up that you offer to share with us, terrific. If you find interesting tweaks that optimize it and you share them with us, terrific. While I won't count on you doing ANYTHING, I will know that if there is something that is tweakable, fixable, setup-able - and you have the time and interest in it - then it would be something that I could benefit from.
I guess what I am sayig is this: with NO phone in your hands, my options for doing anything on the phone are very limited. By saying thanks to you for past efforts (by giving you a phone), I realize that you may find something interesting to share...and that could be something that makes my phone even better. At least it leaves the options open.
I do not see this as a quid pro quo. You owe us nothing. Please reconsider and accept a gift from grateful friends who have benefited from your time in the past. Consider the gift of a new i760, that we hope has lots of potential to make our time with it enjoyable and more efficient. Consider letting us give you the chance to play with it, to fall in love or out of love with it. Your opinions, your reactions, your "playing with it" will probably redound to our benefit...but the main reason I would give money to help you acquire the phone is simply to say "thank you" for what you have demonstrated and done in the past.
OK, guys... I think it would be helpful if I had a final statement on this. I've talked to both Michael and Dave and they are both in on this, not by their own lobbying or choice, but because they have humbly accepted. We aren't going to take this to any other people... just the two of them. If for some reason more money is raised than is needed, then I guess they'll get a case or something... but we aren't going to complicate it by trying to figure out how to take it beyond the two of them. Here are the rules.
- This is a "thank you" from the PPH users for all the work done on the i730 front and the benefit they received in the past
- There is no commitment of either of them, or the site, to deliver anything in return for the donations. If they received the i760s and disappeared the next day, then everyone should still be comfortable with their donation, otherwise don't donate.
- The reason that Dave and Michael are in this, is that they had a unique contribution to the forum for the i730... above and beyond the normal membership or moderator duties... this is not to say that there aren't hundreds of other people that have contributed as well, just that these two guys uniquely contributed.
- Donations will be made via Paypal, with a total amount to be determined based on the retail price of the i760 without a contract (times 2).
- The site will match donations given... so your dollars are doubled. (I will take care of this at the end, rather than trying to deal with it on a donation by donation basis)
- This is a one time thing... no implication that it will be done again in the future.
I am assuming that the original poster, tsatryan will manage the donations. If he is not willing, then we can use my business Paypal account, but I'd rather stay out of it. Prior to this starting, however, I'd like tsatryan to send me his personal contact info via PM, just so the site administration has some way to reach him if there are any issues that arise. Given that a member will be managing the funds, the site is not responsible for the funds, their security, or assuring that they make it to Michael and Dave. As a site member, I trust that a member with a standing history and reputation her is trustworthy, and as I said... I will confidentially get and retain personal contact info prior to the donations beginning.
So, don't donate unless you are OK with these terms... I'll now turn this back over the original poster to get it going.
I have been out of town this week, and not able until tonite to catch up on the postings here....
A few things...
1 - I am in agreement with what Mike (Convergent) has said, and I will PM him accordingly.
2 - By and large, it seems like most folks here understand my original sentiments, and responded accordingly. Unfortunately, as with many threads, this thing took on a life of its own, and talk went down many unfruitful rabbit-trails. In some ways, I regret having actually started the thread. But, my thoughts have been accurately reflected by mrailing, and quite specifically by Convergent. All I have ever wanted to do was organize an effort for those of us who have appreciated all that Michael and Dave have done for our i730. I expect nothing in return. But, these two guys love these gadgets, and also love to share their wealth of knowledge with us. They don't/can't do that if they don't have the phone.
I am a pastor. So, part of the "cloth that I am cut out of" is to reach out and help people. That's not limited to my church. It's who I am. And, I will help here to facilitate things in whatever way is desired.
I have been out of town this week, and not able until tonite to catch up on the postings here....
A few things...
1 - I am in agreement with what Mike (Convergent) has said, and I will PM him accordingly.
2 - By and large, it seems like most folks here understand my original sentiments, and responded accordingly. Unfortunately, as with many threads, this thing took on a life of its own, and talk went down many unfruitful rabbit-trails. In some ways, I regret having actually started the thread. But, my thoughts have been accurately reflected by mrailing, and quite specifically by Convergent. All I have ever wanted to do was organize an effort for those of us who have appreciated all that Michael and Dave have done for our i730. I expect nothing in return. But, these two guys love these gadgets, and also love to share their wealth of knowledge with us. They don't/can't do that if they don't have the phone.
I am a pastor. So, part of the "cloth that I am cut out of" is to reach out and help people. That's not limited to my church. It's who I am. And, I will help here to facilitate things in whatever way is desired.
Pastor Tim, you're a good man. Thanks for doing this! If there's one thing that we all seem to agree with, it's that Michael (Railing) and SuperDave are well-deserving of our gratitude.
__________________
-Jay The Fine Print:Nothing in this post (or any of my other posts) is intended to constitute legal advice or the establishment of an attorney-client relationship. For purposes of this forum, I'm just another nerd like you. :-)
I have been out of town this week, and not able until tonite to catch up on the postings here....
A few things...
1 - I am in agreement with what Mike (Convergent) has said, and I will PM him accordingly.
2 - By and large, it seems like most folks here understand my original sentiments, and responded accordingly. Unfortunately, as with many threads, this thing took on a life of its own, and talk went down many unfruitful rabbit-trails. In some ways, I regret having actually started the thread. But, my thoughts have been accurately reflected by mrailing, and quite specifically by Convergent. All I have ever wanted to do was organize an effort for those of us who have appreciated all that Michael and Dave have done for our i730. I expect nothing in return. But, these two guys love these gadgets, and also love to share their wealth of knowledge with us. They don't/can't do that if they don't have the phone.
I am a pastor. So, part of the "cloth that I am cut out of" is to reach out and help people. That's not limited to my church. It's who I am. And, I will help here to facilitate things in whatever way is desired.
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