Really it comes down to form factor and Rev A EVDO. In my opinion it's only the form factor. Take this in to consideration, that so far I know of only a handful of markets that are in the pipeline to get EVDO Rev A in the next 6 months. Also you need to know that EVDO Rev A will at this time only increase upload speeds, so for a connection from a mobile device this really doesn't matter, as most people won't be uploading many files. Where this will really help is with PC Cards and businesses that do a lot of uploading and remote connections. The download speed of EVDO Rev A is suppose to remain at around the same speed of Rev 0.
The other point that I think needs to be brought up for consideration when deciding if one needs a Rev A or not....or at least trying to put a weight on it for the pros and cons scale against another phone....is tethering. With Sprint for around $35 or so a month we should be able to add it as a modem with their version of "unlimited" data. This in turn, turns the 6800 into virtually a PC data card. I think for me this is probably what is going to happen. I live in a Rev A (or soon to be according to a higher ranking corp contact of mine) area. Even if not it is in many of the areas I travel to on a regular basis for work. That extra upload speed would certainly pay off in no time.
__________________ Hobbes Writer for WMExperts.com www.wmexperts.com/ | www.wmexperts.com/reviews/ | discussion.wmexperts.com/
Last edited by HobbesIsReal : 04-24-2007 at 01:32 PM.
Nice summary of the trade-offs of these two devices. Seems neither is quite the weapon our group would have designed.
Some thoughts:
1) While ROM storage capacity isn't so critical given removable flash support (although microSD is a poor choice), RAM size of 64MB is simply too small. Many non-mobile-optimized Web sites just choke these PPCs. Ideally, RAM would be 256MB in both the x6800/Titan and SCH-i760/Robin.
2) With 16mm color-depth on a growing number of its units, Nokia's eating everyone's lunch in graphics. What's wrong with other vendors that we can't have VGA res with 16mm colors?
3) While we wouldn't trade codemeisters MR, SD, Dimension & Co., the x6800 does have an army of mad scientists at XDA-Developers.com. Thus, the x6800 has a vastly larger 'value-add' community. ~~
And another:
You know, aside from mining leading forums for the insight and wisdom of advanced users, there's a simple way these handset-makers can make friends and learn how to get it right. Blogs.
Among the most effective blog models is Lenovo's series; one is called "Inside the Box." Have a look at this candid piece (and comments) by one of Lenovo's evangelists, Matt Kohut, on the subject of why ThinkPads no longer offer high-end ("IPS"--In-Plane Switching) LCD displays. This sort of dialogue--with readers and posters all over the world--is remarkable. Lenovo is listening.
wayne...this is our point exactly...there is little need for more rom, we want more ram.
Kbam, thanks for your comments. I agree with you fully. If some of the other devices came out cdma I would pick those up in a heartbeat. We see from other devices what these things could be and are not...that is what is infuriating. So far, as long as the screen estate on the 760 is not less than what we have now...it will most likely be my next phone; as HTC would have to really ramp up the features to beat Samsung, compensating for their design and quality flaws in comparison to Samsung. It does not look like that is going to happen.
Legal tethering is allowed through verizon for a small fee as well...I use it and enjoy it!
__________________
John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.
wayne...this is our point exactly...there is little need for more rom, we want more ram.
Maybe I misunderstand the way WM5 (and I assume WM6) layout memory.
My i730 with WM5 usually has over 20 meg of free "program" memory. I assumed this was ram and it gets 'rebuilt' from scratch on a soft reset. It mostly gets consumed if I want to run numerous programs at one time.
But my "storage" memory can go under 10 meg. By dumping IE cache and old emails, I can get that back up. I assumed this was flash (nand?) rom. Thus my thinking that more main flash would be helpful.
Maybe I misunderstand the way WM5 (and I assume WM6) layout memory.
My i730 with WM5 usually has over 20 meg of free "program" memory. I assumed this was ram and it gets 'rebuilt' from scratch on a soft reset. It mostly gets consumed if I want to run numerous programs at one time.
But my "storage" memory can go under 10 meg. By dumping IE cache and old emails, I can get that back up. I assumed this was flash (nand?) rom. Thus my thinking that more main flash would be helpful.
Wayne for more information on memory check this out (Post #8 and then follow the link in it to another thread with more information):
The comment about more RAM is that it will help the system out when running multiple programs at once, like GPS software, and the phone app, and stuff similar to that. Sure 128 MB of RAM would be nice, but still the current trend is 64 MB.
__________________
-Michael
Need help setting up your i730/i830 or other WM2003/WM5 Phone, as well as the other hacks I have done, check out the MRailing Guides and Links
The comment about more RAM is that it will help the system out when running multiple programs at once, like GPS software, and the phone app, and stuff similar to that. Sure 128 MB of RAM would be nice, but still the current trend is 64 MB.
That is exactly as I thought it worked.
So more ram wouldn't do me any good at all. More rom would help. In fact it would help a little to combine main memory and Safestore so I don't waste a little trying to keep a few meg free on each.
It will be interesting to see how they lay out flash memory.
So more ram wouldn't do me any good at all. More rom would help. In fact it would help a little to combine main memory and Safestore so I don't waste a little trying to keep a few meg free on each.
It will be interesting to see how they lay out flash memory.
Main Memory and SafeStore are flash memory...
__________________
-Michael
Need help setting up your i730/i830 or other WM2003/WM5 Phone, as well as the other hacks I have done, check out the MRailing Guides and Links
Another difference is if the i760 ships with Voice Signal. IMO this is far superior to Voice Command. It is what I missed the most about my i730 and i600 after switching to the Treo 700.
VC struggles within the memory constraints of my 700w, where as the recognition of VS was incredibly stable and accurate.
Based on pictures I've seen taken by the 6800, the increased resolution of the camera will be basically meaningless, it's pop junk. I expect the 760's will be meh also and none of us will make a decision based on the camera.
I think the thumbtip-shaped keys of the i760 will have a better feel than the gridded rectangles on the 6800. Posts on the 6800 threads say the screen feels flimsy when tapped and the keyboard backlight requires very low light to activate.
What I notice about the i760's hard phone keys is that the d-pad position is great for right-handed use, but I don't know if I can contort my thumb to dial with those keys one-handed unless I dial left-handed. For people who have held one, is an i760 bottom-heavy enough or small enough that you can hold the phone in your right hand and comfortably hit the 3, 6, or 9 key? Is it basically as easy as hitting the Contacts button on an i730?
I do like the arrow keys on the 6800's keyboard, but dislike that both keyboards require two keystrokes for a comma, and neither lets you hold down the period key to cycle through .com, .net, .org, .co.uk, T9-style. The 6800 jumbles up typical symbol placement a lot, while the i760 stays true to a typical computer keyboard as much as possible. Note how the i760's home row keys follow the order (omitting % and ^) of a typical number key row, then look at how the 6800 scattered them. But in the 6800's favor, since the shift key is a left thumb key, placing all the numbers in right thumb space makes for quick number entry of short numbers without needing to shift-lock or stretch into left-thumb-facing keys for 1-5. The 6800 sends you to the symbol function for $ and \ while the i760 buries ; % and = and has no page up and page down function - but that requires a bluedot hold and a keypress on the 6800. On the 6800, I'd be hitting the blue dot function key when I meant to hit Shift a lot, and searching to find the OK key.
A jog dial and a go back button from the 6800 are missing on the i760, and the go back button is a loss from the i730, which I actually use quite a bit, but I don't expect to miss the shortcut keys, I usually only use the Contacts key and I'm sorta hoping to softmap it from a Today app to one of the ... keys.
I don't see any top and bottom or jack pictures, but I assume Samsung is going to stick to the proprietary charger jack rather than miniUSB to pump its inflated accessories that the aftermarket tramples with better and cheaper alternatives.
SDHC is proven to work at 4gb at least with a 6800. It's still TBD on a 760.
There's a lot of solid info on the 6800 in its forum, I'm surprised there's not much traffic on this thread since the 6800 release. Maybe everyone faithful to this forum has made a foregone conclusion already?
The 6800 jumbles up typical symbol placement a lot, while the i760 stays true to a typical computer keyboard as much as possible. Note how the i760's home row keys follow the order (omitting % and ^) of a typical number key row, then look at how the 6800 scattered them. But in the 6800's favor, since the shift key is a left thumb key, placing all the numbers in right thumb space makes for quick number entry of short numbers without needing to shift-lock or stretch into left-thumb-facing keys for 1-5. The 6800 sends you to the symbol function for $ and \ while the i760 buries ; % and = and has no page up and page down function - but that requires a bluedot hold and a keypress on the 6800. On the 6800, I'd be hitting the blue dot function key when I meant to hit Shift a lot, and searching to find the OK key.
All good points, as well as the other comparisons you make, and yes; I'd like to have the external number pad. But I think the most asinine key placement on the *6800/Mogul is the @ key. fn-Q fer Pet's sake. That's either a lock fn key or a stretch all the way across the keyboard. As often as I enter email address, that's ridiculous!
__________________
Don't mess with old futs...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! B. S. and brilliance only come with age and experience!
The 6800 jumbles up typical symbol placement a lot, while the i760 stays true to a typical computer keyboard as much as possible. Note how the i760's home row keys follow the order (omitting % and ^) of a typical number key row, then look at how the 6800 scattered them.
It took me a long time to realize that this is what I miss about the Treo and hate on my Q. A year later and I'm still searching for symbols like '!'.
I used one of our Sprint 6800's yesterday and was really disappointed. The display is nice, but the phone feels chintzy in my hand.
The stylus is in the bottom of the phone.
The front buttons are not raised so when trying to hit the right softkey I kept hitting the send button, and the top key placement is very awkward, not allowing for easy one handedness.
The jog wheel was nice but is on the wrong side of the phone unless you are left handed or use it constantly in landscape mode.
The square keyboard grid makes it difficult to feel for key placement.
Many of these things would be something you could get used to. For me personally, there is no way I would purchase that device.
I would trade off some ergonomics for features, but the entire device felt bulky and "brick like" in my hand while trying to work with it.
It is truly a 2 handed device.
I really hope the i760 feels smaller like everyone says, or else I may need to forgo some functionality for the Q9 when it comes out.
I switched to Sprint and the Mogul from Verizon and an i730. I don't know what someone meant by a flimsy screen. Mine is tight, and I've never even SEEN any posts about that. A simple checkbox in settings, and the screen's backlight comes on whenever it's opened. That how I prefer it. I love this Mogul, and the SERO plan is unbeatable.
I switched to Sprint and the Mogul from Verizon and an i730. I don't know what someone meant by a flimsy screen. Mine is tight, and I've never even SEEN any posts about that. A simple checkbox in settings, and the screen's backlight comes on whenever it's opened. That how I prefer it. I love this Mogul, and the SERO plan is unbeatable.
Yup, my experience exactly, and one of the things that I've heard specifically mentioned as being "flimsy" is the back/battery cover ... and it is; when it's not secured to the phone.
But when it's seated into it's channels, it's quite solid. In these days of micro miniature devices where every milligram and fraction of a millimeter count, I actually consider this a "feature"!
__________________
Don't mess with old futs...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! B. S. and brilliance only come with age and experience!
Yup, my experience exactly, and one of the things that I've heard specifically mentioned as being "flimsy" is the back/battery cover ... and it is; when it's not secured to the phone.
But when it's seated into it's channels, it's quite solid. In these days of micro miniature devices where every milligram and fraction of a millimeter count, I actually consider this a "feature"!
My feelings exactly, I now like it that way. I love everything about the Mogul. The "issues" have been far easier for me to fix than on the i730, and the SERO plan is so killer, that I ordered one for my wife, and will then cancel all remaining lines with Verizon. I told the Verizon guy this in the store the other day, and he started giving his speil about the network, etc. I said Sprint works BETTER where I live and travel, and there's free roaming to boot on SERO. I complained about how they slammed 2 of my lines with Text Messaging, which was never discussed, wanted, or ever used on those 2 lines. I didn't catch it for a year, and no credit was offered. I pointed out that every time I got an added line, the salesperson had changed my "primary number" to get more commission, causing account issues. Sometime a "gopher" who works for me ended up with the primary number, causing HIM to get calls about issues, time for a payment, etc. Idiots.
Then I told him how angry I was that they took the camera off the i730. He said it was because of the needs in the corporate world. I said why didn't you offer both versions then. He said that would cost too much to design 2 phones. I said the camera version was already developed, all you had to do was silk-screen your Logo on it. You would still only have to design the 1 version, the camera-less one. He shrugged his shoulders. Then I asked if the 6800 and i760 are going to have the cameras removed too. He said he couldn't talk about new products. I said, "Well, if they HAVE the cameras, then your arguement about why you took it out of the i730 is weak, and it was really because you wanted to only sell camera phones that you could charge for sending the photos. If you have again REMOVED the cameras, then I wouldn't want either unit in any event, since Sprint HAS the camera."
I frequently refered to the savings on my SERO plan too. The manager came over and got involved, then sulked away. Many others were listening with keen interest. Revenge is sweet......
I second everything you said TheBundo. Where I live and work, Sprint is way better. 700K average EVDO (VZ NEVER broke 200K). My SERO plan has more then VZ gave me... and over $100 LESS per month. I went from 211 to 110 with more service and better converage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBundo
My feelings exactly, I now like it that way. I love everything about the Mogul. The "issues" have been far easier for me to fix than on the i730, and the SERO plan is so killer, that I ordered one for my wife, and will then cancel all remaining lines with Verizon. I told the Verizon guy this in the store the other day, and he started giving his speil about the network, etc. I said Sprint works BETTER where I live and travel, and there's free roaming to boot on SERO. I complained about how they slammed 2 of my lines with Text Messaging, which was never discussed, wanted, or ever used on those 2 lines. I didn't catch it for a year, and no credit was offered. I pointed out that every time I got an added line, the salesperson had changed my "primary number" to get more commission, causing account issues. Sometime a "gopher" who works for me ended up with the primary number, causing HIM to get calls about issues, time for a payment, etc. Idiots.
Then I told him how angry I was that they took the camera off the i730. He said it was because of the needs in the corporate world. I said why didn't you offer both versions then. He said that would cost too much to design 2 phones. I said the camera version was already developed, all you had to do was silk-screen your Logo on it. You would still only have to design the 1 version, the camera-less one. He shrugged his shoulders. Then I asked if the 6800 and i760 are going to have the cameras removed too. He said he couldn't talk about new products. I said, "Well, if they HAVE the cameras, then your arguement about why you took it out of the i730 is weak, and it was really because you wanted to only sell camera phones that you could charge for sending the photos. If you have again REMOVED the cameras, then I wouldn't want either unit in any event, since Sprint HAS the camera."
I frequently refered to the savings on my SERO plan too. The manager came over and got involved, then sulked away. Many others were listening with keen interest. Revenge is sweet......
With all of the mysterious delays on the i760, it is starting to look like I'll be holding both of these units in my hand at the same time. At that point it will be more about things like battery life and accessory availability I suspect.
The jog wheel, more storage memory and camera pixels are winning out.
Since I seldom use the phone (the PDA function is more important to me) the dial pad has little value to me.
Any comments on the larger 6800 keyboard. I have fat thumbs that mistype on my i730 keyboard. The 6800 appears to have a more conventional layout that may mean fewer errors. But the i760 may feel better.
Any comments on the larger 6800 keyboard. I have fat thumbs that mistype on my i730 keyboard. The 6800 appears to have a more conventional layout that may mean fewer errors. But the i760 may feel better.
Having used the sprint 6800 and NOT the i760 this is mostly supposition.
The keypad on the 6800 has keys that are on a square grid and not separated at all. I found this to be difficult to navigate and in limited use made multiple keystroke errors.
I haven't liked the keys on the 6600, 6700, or 6800 now. The treo and Q were ok but small so I really think I am going to appreciate the keyboard on the i760 moreso than the other options.
I think I will probably get over the misalignment of the bottom row of keys on the 760 pretty quickly.
Last edited by depressedVZWuse : 09-06-2007 at 07:36 PM.
Login
Panel
