I just wanted to say good bye to all of you in this forum! I have "known" a lot of you for years and years! you guys have made owning all of my 700 series great! this forum is unlike anything else out there! ...I look forward to seeing some of you guys in the iPhone forum!!


-BM

Not even going to try out the 6.1 update before you sell it?

#3 No instant messaging
Yes it's a free d\l applicaiton

#5 Not compatible with Bluetooth car kits or headphones
Works fine in my Mercedez and Rang Rover
Works fine in my brothers BMW.

#7 Non user-replaceable battery
Why would I replace it? I'm going to replace the entire device in one year when the next version is released. The battery will be fine until then.

#8 No MMS
Most the people I know have e-mail (PDA type phones)on their phone.
And so will everyone else within 6 months.

#9 No turn-by-turn navigation
OK bt how many other phones do this?.......one?

How about when your battery is low and you need another one to attach, or when the charge cycles are too frequent and you have worn your battery out.

Every phone on Verizon that has GPS.

Any smartphone with gps?

Yup. and if what I'm reading about battery life using 3G and GPS, you'll need to be near a charger before your day is even through. sounds like my i760, but at least I can just swap out a battery and be on my merry way instead of hoping that 5 minute charge will get me through the nite.

#1 No upgrade to the camera

True, the 3G version was not upgraded over the previous version, however the 2 mega pix cam is almost double the crap (1.3) on arguably the best windows mobile PDA out there.

#2 No Adobe Flash support

I agree this sucks. But, what mobile phone browser comes with the ability to view flash video? i760 users had to hack away just to get a watered down You Tube!

#3 No instant messaging
See Mark's comments.


#4 Totally impractical for international travel
No phone is "practical" when traveling abroad. At least it works across the pond! I'll stick to renting a satellite phone and forwarding calls for now.

#5 Not compatible with Bluetooth car kits or headphones
Paired seamlessly with my '07 BMW 550! -I havent heard of anyone who couldnt get it to pair! The author of the article you're referencing shows a Hyundai as an example. I rest my case.


#6 No cut and paste

I guess I do miss this. But, I mean, really. When "cut and paste" is all you miss about your WM PDA, you really cant complain!

#7 Non user-replaceable battery
BFD. I have never had to replace a battery on any PDA I've owned, so I really dont see what the big deal is if I can't disconnect my battery.

#8 No MMS

Just email it. It couldnt be simpler to email a photo to a text number. Again, BFD.

#9 No turn-by-turn navigation

Third party app will be out very soon. I will try and find the article and post it.

#10 Stunning hypocrisy
Sounds like sour grapes from some blackberry loyalist hack. Blackberry is a washed up, has-been company that was left in the dust while the industry was evolving and being pioneered by others.

I didnt want iPhone to be this good, I really didnt. I wanted to stay loyal to VZW (been with them since they were airtouch) and window mobile PDA's.

iPhone just plain dominates.

I hate the biased lists more than I hate the iPhone. Here's my own take on the deficiencies:

• No dedicated Send/End button
• No home screen replacements (a la Pocketbreeze or phoneAlarm)
• No profile switching (like phoneAlarm)
• No voice dialing (Voice Command)
• No tasks (seriously, how has this been overlooked?)
• No A2DP (BT car stereo)
• No local storage for email attachments.
• No subscription music service.
• No background applications.

Nonetheless, I’ll be at the Apple store in the next couple of weeks to buy the new iPhone. Why? Because I’m tired of:

1. Rebooting my stupid phones daily
2. Watching the stupid hourglass/swirly-thing
3. Not being able to save any attachments or Downloads (Smartphone)
4. Not being able to do anything without the stylus (PocketPC)
5. Web “light”

Web Light?

Ever hear of Opera Mini or Iris? Renders pages completely. Opera Mini has a mobile view and a desktop view which gives the pages exactly as you'd see them with the option to zoom out.

Can you tether with the iPhone (I actually don't know and am legitimately asking)?

After playing with the iPhone, and looking at what it can and can't do, the iPhone feels a lot like a phone made to be a dumb PDA. It doesn't have half of the features that you get with a Windows Mobile phone, or half of the personalization and customization options that come with a Windows Mobile phone.

Some people just don't need most of the features that come with a full blown PDA like our i760s. It seems like an iPhone is better than a Windows Mobile SmartPhone (no touch screen), better than a phone like the Voyager, but not up to par with the Windows Mobile Professional and Blackberry.

Just look at the marketing. You never see the i760 advertised with VZW. You never see Windows Mobile's features advertised. Apple is competing (unfairly) against regular phones and blowing them all away with features, and naturally, they should. If you put the iPhone up against my old Samsung a990 or Motorola RAZR VC3, then of course, the iPhone will win in every category because of it's design and feature-set, however, against a Windows Mobile PDA, I think it fails in comparison. I mean, does it even have an office suite?

Oh, and you said Blackberry is washed up? Then why does Telemundo, one of the largest Spanish TV programmers in the US, owned by NBC-Universal, who is owned by GM, issue out Blackberries to almost anyone who is important? My school issues out Blackberries to all it's IT Employees. I got a job last summer and was issued a Blackberry. Washed up? Hardly.

When you start seeing corporate execs who talk on the phone all day and need multiple batteries walking around with iPhones, and business people using iPhones for business use, then I'll agree, however, until then, the iPhone just fails in comparison, and business people and IT professionals know that, which why you're actually downgrading.

BTW. VZW had the first offer on the iPhone, before AT&T. VZW turned them down because of the battery issue, and because they would not let VZW techs repair them in store. VZW did not think that would be the best thing for their customers, so the backed out. Now hope you never have to call AT&T customer service, you'll know why when you have to.

Sorry just had to chime in on this misinformation.

#1 No upgrade to the camera: Ok fine you want to replace your digicam with your phone, I would like to also, but not if it makes my phone a brick, more than two megapixels and your looking at a autofocus lens and perhaps a flash to make it worth the extra pixels, which means bigger phone less battery life, no thanks. Look here for details on why it’s still 2 megapixels: More iPhone camera megapixels would be worse, not better

#2 No Adobe Flash support: We have no one to blame for proprietary web standards but ourselves, whats the biggest reason for flash, from what I have seen is embedded video, which is what the HTML 5 <video> tag is for, But alas it has been stated before Adobe and Apple are working on flash but porting that spaghetti code over to the iPhone so it runs good and doesn’t eat the battery seems to be difficult based on it not being out yet.

#3 No instant messaging: Come on is this guy just ignoring 3rd part apps?

#4 Totally impractical for international travel: So lets get this straight, the Backberry is better in this regard because it strips down web pages on the server? Nice way of saying it doesn’t have a decent web browser but at least it helps reducing crazy roaming data charges, oh yeah which WinMo phone does this, Thunderhawk? Could probably find a web based compression proxy if I really wanted to mangle web pages and scale down the data on the iPhone.

#5 Not compatible with Bluetooth car kits or headphones: No one I know has issues with the Bluetooth, in fact it’s pairing process and management of Bluetooth is light years ahead of anything I have seen on WinMo. A2DP, great on battery life I am sure, and quality is horrible compared to a wire for music, if you really want iPhone music in your car get a iPod adapter option or kit for your car stereo, nothing like being able to control the iPod app from you cars steering wheel controls while keeping it charged.

#6 No cut and paste: This is coming IPhone 3G: Apple Doesn't Have a Problem With iPhone Cut and Paste, They Just Don't Care unlike WinMo since swiping across text content is already occupied by the touch scroll gestures it not so simple to throw it in there, they are trying to make an easy to use gesture to do it while not interfering with the existing gestures, you can have you skinny scroll bars, I’ll wait for cut & paste.

#7 Non user-replaceable battery: I thought this would be an issue with my 1g, but the iPhones battery simply blows away any WInMo phone I have ever had, and actually uses LESS battery on WIFi than edge even, let alone 3g.
On a heavy travel day for me it might need charging at the end of the day, otherwise 2 days no prob, of course that’s my usage. If you really cant find a USB or wall outlet when your low then heck buy one of these iPhone Battery Charger Cradle,iPhone Charger, iPhone Cradle, iPhone Battery Extend, iPhone Dock It prob still thinner than my i730 with it on.

#8 No MMS: I give them this, email is a better technology, but not everyone has it, the iPhone needs mms, they probably have it planned, but maybe they are being stubborn as they would rather people move away from paying more to send data to another phone than it takes to send to the hubble in 160 byte messages.

#9 No turn-by-turn navigation: Again ignoring 3rd party apps TomTom already demoed, it’s coming.

#10 Stunning hypocrisy: WTF he is trying to imply you need mobile me to sync with exchange or something, no iPhone goes right to Exchange without the need for Apple servers in any way, unlike a Blackberry with BES between you and exchange that cost what $100 a seat??? Moble me is if you don’t already have exchange give you basically an exchange server account plus a more for $99 a YEAR wow that’s just like a Blackberry, not.

It's a different philosophy overall, smart phones are a compromise, Apple compromises tward battery life stabililty and easy of use first, WinMo, toward features regardless of stability or easy of use.

All you idiots arguing FOR the iPhone...

First of all why are you still here?

Second of all, i like how your profile says "PDAPhone: iPhone"
- It's not a PDA

Lastly, arguing about #3, no flash?? And how we have to d/l third party programs? At least we CAN, and WE GOT WM6.1, ITS BUILT IN!

Oh, and Justin, that article about the camera is retarded. I had a 3.2 MPx camera on my a990, and it took beautiful pictures. No problems, nothing like he talked about. It's making a lame excuse by someone who wants to justify Apple's decision. At least I can criticize Micro$oft for their shortcomings, unlike you Apple people who bow down at the feet of Steve Jobs.

What are you saying, why is the iPhone not a Personal Digital Assistant and a WinMo phone is? What is the defining feature that makes a phone become a PDAphone?

I didn't realize you could buy download 3rd party apps from an app store right on your WinMo phone? Last time I used WinMo they where exe's you had to run on a windows PC to get into activesync then install on the phone.

What about #3 he said no Instant Messaging, which had nothing to do with flash???

My iPhone takes beautiful pictures as well, but that completely subjective. If you want to call the article retarded at least have a non retarded response to the optical issues he clearly went over and seems to understand with regards to autofocus and lowlight ability vs more pixels otherwise you have no leg to stand on. BTW your a990 had autofocus just like the article said would be needed, which adds bulk and reduces battery life.

Where do you criticize MS again, I must have missed that. Sorry if I think the iPhone is a better device, somehow I don't see that equivalent to bowing down to Steve Jobs, does that mean you bow down to Ballmer because you like WinMo better?

You have to buy and install the sw for the smartphone.
You can do that with the iPhone also......well give it a week....

Oh wait are you talking about VZW Navigator?

I don't criticize MicroSoft here because there is nothing to criticize here, although writing "Micro$oft is a criticism in itself.

As for the iPhone's camera vs the a990's camera, you can turn auto focus off, hence saving your precious battery life. I understand the difference with the lenses, and the need for auto focus, but the point is that the iPhone should have a better camera. Don't want auto focus? Turn it off. Don't want flash? Turn it off. Again, just some options you should have that you don't.

Anyway, why are you here? I'm done feeding the iPhone trolls. Go back to your Apple play world, and let the people who like real PDAs and real computers stick to the PDA world.

Not to jump into this enthralling debate, but when was the last time you used WinMo? .cab files run and install right on the phone. That's how I download and install much of my software.

Well it's been a whole wonderful year without using windows mobile, and back then at least 80% of the software was not distributed as a cab not to mention actually getting to the cab through pocket IE wow that was fun. So does Handango have a Pocket IE optimized site yet with direct cab downloads?

Yes, absolutely - "web light". Opera mini is the only thing I use on my i760 but it has a critical limitation - it can't be your default web browser (i.e., doesn't launch links from email or integrate copy/paste). Iris, Netfront, Skyfire - they either work so-so or require a server to compress the images.

Seriously - web-browsing is the one area where you really can't make a plausible argument for WM6 over the iPhone.

Good point, and that's on my "list", but I neglected to add it to my list. PDANet is rumored to be on the way, but I have my doubts.

What are the features beyond those I listed that you are referring to? The App Store vastly closes the gap, so I really don't think this is as valid an argument these days. Each has features the other doesn't, so it's a balancing test for everyone to decide what is important to them.

Provide a definition for "full blown PDA". Able to create and install apps? Symbian, WM, iPhone, BB all have that. Full 3G data. All 4. Enterprise email? All 4.

Huh? Where did I ever say that?

Interesting - how is it that you know what is best for me (or anyone other than yourself)? This is the problem with trying to have reasoned discussions with fanboys and hateboys. I listed a bunch of flaws in the iPhone and a bunch of positive traits, which, on balance result in a better experience for me. If you want to discuss, please do. If you want to setup and knock down a bunch of strawmen arguments...no thanks.

I'd love to see support for that statement. VZW turned them down because of the money, plain and simple.