Deeter! Good to see another person on here who works with cellular and understands it. This is not a perfect world, and companies have to make decisions. I fully enjoy my data though! Anyway, I am Nate. I have yet to officially meet you, but I work currently with indirect. For a while I did work corporate in chicago and then also did b2b with vzw corporate for about a year before moving away from the big city!
Just to clarify for everyone else, DEETER is correct. The only phones that will not be activated without data are the newer pda's (and blackberry). If you have your old 6700 laying around and are nostalgic and need to rehash your past, then by all means, I am more than happy to help you activate it, as I am sure DEETER would as well. THIS PHONE WILL ACTIVATE WITHOUT THE $30 DATA PACKAGE!!!
That said, time to get back to work...
Nate
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If you have any questions at all feel free to PM me, or email me on my personal account. nathan.burlison@gmail.com
Also, please feel free to call me at my store anytime, (314) 291-8699. Just ask for me.
OK, just one more comment! Make everyone with a smartphone sign an acknowledgement about the potential data bills, just like we all have to sign HIPAA forms at the doctor's office. Then give no credits!
Good customers, those who pay their reasonable bills for services that they agreed to, will be happy and un-punished.
Everyone else is not a good customer and these are the people that Verizon can afford to lose.
The $30 cap is a terrible idea from VZW's standpoint. With a plan VZW is guaranteed $30 per month. Nobody willl get a plan if the price is capped and many people won't pay the whole $30.
I gotta say, I was resistant to the whole thing... being forced to pay an extra $30 a month for something I had no intentions of ever using. I called Verizion and complained and asked why they couldn't just shut off the entire Internet on the phone so it couldn't be used. I didn't care. But he said it wasn't possible to shut it off.
In hindsight though, I really would've missed out... and I would've been one of those people who didn't realize how much data he used until he got that huge bill the first month. So even though I don't like paying the extra $30, I understand it, and I do uses it way more than I ever dreamed.
I gotta say, I was resistant to the whole thing... being forced to pay an extra $30 a month for something I had no intentions of ever using. I called Verizion and complained and asked why they couldn't just shut off the entire Internet on the phone so it couldn't be used. I didn't care. But he said it wasn't possible to shut it off.
In hindsight though, I really would've missed out... and I would've been one of those people who didn't realize how much data he used until he got that huge bill the first month. So even though I don't like paying the extra $30, I understand it, and I do uses it way more than I ever dreamed.
If you want to believe that line "they can't shut it off" then I have some really good real estate in Florida to sell ya cheep! THEY CAN shut it off, its just their current pollicy is not not to. There is NO difference between provisioning a Q9M phone and the Omnia as far as the network goes for example. Its all data to the network and it doesn't know the difference between phones other than what Verizon puts in the system as to what phone you have. So, they're full of it...
If you want to believe that line "they can't shut it off" then I have some really good real estate in Florida to sell ya cheep!
SWEET! How much?
Just kidding. But as far as them being able to shut it off your technically right Echew. Could Verizon shut the data off completely like Echews kids q9...of course, but the system right now is set up to block that from happening on the new phones. Lets say Echew called in and said he wanted to activate the Omnia. If i try and block it, it allows me to add the block then when I go to submit the block, it tells me its not compatible, and automatically throws on one of the data plans. I know some people may have thought it was the Reps who just werent adding it becuase they were told not to. There is just no way around it. Believe me I treid every which was possible.
So could Verizon remove that option for all said phones in a matter of minutes.....You betcha. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Unless those of you who are against the policy speak up and voice your complaints.
And PillagingJack, nice to meet you as well. I am sure we will be of some use around here to clear up policy disputes and questions. But i have to admit, most everyone on this forum is pretty darn knowledgable.
Just kidding. But as far as them being able to shut it off your technically right Echew. Could Verizon shut the data off completely like Echews kids q9...of course, but the system right now is set up to block that from happening on the new phones. Lets say Echew called in and said he wanted to activate the Omnia. If i try and block it, it allows me to add the block then when I go to submit the block, it tells me its not compatible, and automatically throws on one of the data plans. I know some people may have thought it was the Reps who just werent adding it becuase they were told not to. There is just no way around it. Believe me I treid every which was possible.
So could Verizon remove that option for all said phones in a matter of minutes.....You betcha. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Unless those of you who are against the policy speak up and voice your complaints.
And PillagingJack, nice to meet you as well. I am sure we will be of some use around here to clear up policy disputes and questions. But i have to admit, most everyone on this forum is pretty darn knowledgable.
I think I can let it go for $50! Though I can't speak for the gator infestation! lol
Exactly, thats my point. They have flags in the system preventing it. but nuts to bolts its no different than any of the other PDA WinMo phones.
You know, its very funny when I call into technical support and I tell them things they they didn't know. Then they ask "How do you know so much"? I respond that I do my research in forums and have been using WinMo devices since PocketPC v1.
I think I can let it go for $50! Though I can't speak for the gator infestation! lol
If my good buddy Steve Irwin were still here I would take you up on that.
God rest his soul.....
I love when customers call in to tech support that actually know what they are doing. It makes my job easier. Now don't get me wrong, when I walk customers through the pda and show them things they never knew its rather rewarding...especially the elderly people who never had a blackberry before. But when I can breeze through a call becuase the guy on the other end understands the phone is rather helpful. I used to love catching the guys who flashed their 6800's with the sprint roms to unlock GPS. They would have all sorts of problems because they didnt follow the directions, and they were shocked when I told them I knew what they doing. I always took care of them though. But I used to laugh when they tried to cover it up......
Regardless of whether or not you like my solution (detailed above), if you don't like mandatory data plans, follow the link listed earlier in this thread and file your complaint. If you have a better solution, please list it here and we will all go do the survey again. Thanks to everyone for following this thread and chiming in.
I understand Verizon getting upset by the idiots who run up huge bills because they didn't monitor their data useage. But I've heard of the same thing with people who have kids who run up huge texting bills. I'm not forced into a texting package though.
And I can perfectly see how some people don't need a data package, as I said, I'm one. I'm a high school teacher. I get up in the morning and if the weather's questionable (like today) I use my XV6700 over my home wifi to check if we're closed. While I'm at work I can't use my phone because we have a strict no cell phone rule for students and I like to model that. When I get home, my phone uses my home wifi again and checks my e-mail for me. If later that day I go hang out with a friend, 9 out of 10 times I end up in a wifi hotspot. In a given month, I end up without wifi when I would want it maybe twice.
So that leads me to this idea that I got when I got some mail from Verizon. Apparently you can get a 24 hour pass for the VZNavigator for like $5 or something like that. Maybe one of our Verizon friends here can clarify the price. How about offering an option to get the phone with no data plan but then if I find myself in a "must have" moment, I can go to the verizon website (and with updates to phones, right from my phone) and buy a 24 hour day pass for like $5 (and/or maybe even a week pass for $20 in case I went on vacation and the hotel doesn't offer wifi). This may require some firmware updates on the phones or something, but it would allow people to avoid the huge bills because they can't comprehend how much data it takes to download an attachment or open a webpage. Plus Verizon could then get people hooked if they offered 3 free day passes on the service (like I see they do with Dell laptop with Verizon internet built in) with purchase of the phone. Then we might be suckered into a data plan instead of forced. I mean if you want to get people like me who have gone years without a data plan to get a data plan, we have to see first hand the benefits. Otherwise we're going to pitch a fit (like we are here).
Also, as far as the PIX/FLIX concern, how about this: make the online system throw up 20 red flags for people buying these phones without data packages so they know they won't be able to receive PIX/FLIX and educate the store employees to stress this to people who want these phones without data packages (put it in their system to remind them too). Then, perhaps to help those who still want to receive PIX/FLIX, give them a $5 a month option or something to have these forwarded to an e-mail address. They way they can technically still receive them (and if they enter a wifi hotspot, they can then view them).
Also, the HDTV analogy's not very good. Perhaps I just want to use my HDTV for a game console and/or Blu-Ray and I'm happy with just my antenna for HD broadcast and download other HD shows at my choosing via Live Marketplace. Maybe I want to use it as a monitor for a home security system (extreme, but some might want to). There are a dozen ways to use an HDTV without getting HD cable or satelitte. Same with WinMo devices. There are dozens of ways to use them without a data package. To go back to the TV analogy, maybe you can't live without ESPN, History Channel, and Fox News. But I can get by just fine with only CBS, ABC, NBC, and FOX.
Then maybe VZW should offer to block data and not subsidize the device. You are right the HDTV analogy is not very good. You have a smartphone and there is a certain expectation that you will use data, just like when you buy a computer 99% of the time the computer will be hooked up to the internet. Are there other uses for a computer that does not require the internet? Sure but in this day and age the internet is pretty much necessary.
Then maybe VZW should offer to block data and not subsidize the device. You are right the HDTV analogy is not very good. You have a smartphone and there is a certain expectation that you will use data, just like when you buy a computer 99% of the time the computer will be hooked up to the internet. Are there other uses for a computer that does not require the internet? Sure but in this day and age the internet is pretty much necessary.
No it is NOT!!!
That is exactly what we are talking about here! There are a great many of us that don't need internet on our phones! Several have posted in this thread. Why is it so hard to understand that and accept that we feel neglected and bullied by Verizon?
I use my smartphone everyday doing things that can't be done without a PDA and I have NEVER used internet in nearly 8 years of owning a smartphone. I might have sampled internet if I felt welcomed to without being locked into a costly plan. Who knows, I might have gotten hooked!
But as it is now, I will never even try it!
If you insist on analogies, I will admit that I have internet on my computer (obviously), but I do many completely worthwhile things that don't require it.
To everyone: Please don't make blanket statements based on only one person's opinion and viewpoint as if it is the whole truth. Try to see that there are many different ways to use our great devices, and respect those different ways and people even if their opinion differs from your own. Also try to respect that those people may be unhappy with the state of things and wish for a solution that accomodates everyone (which I believe to be entirely possible, see above).
That is exactly what we are talking about here! There are a great many of us that don't need internet on our phones! Several have posted in this thread. Why is it so hard to understand that and accept that we feel neglected and bullied by Verizon?
I use my smartphone everyday doing things that can't be done without a PDA and I have NEVER used internet in nearly 8 years of owning a smartphone. I might have sampled internet if I felt welcomed to without being locked into a costly plan. Who knows, I might have gotten hooked! But as it is now, I will never even try it!
There lies the crux of the matter, question posed and answered. It isn't really a question of NEED at all, just a matter of economics and a desire to avoid paying a cost for service. I don't like paying exhorbidantcharges for data either, but for the value of having internet available on a smartphone is, $30 bucks a month isn't all that bad, and given a choice between $30/mo and $4000 there is no question as to which is a safer choice.
I suppose a similar argument can be made for texting as well, from the horror stories I have read of kids racking up thousands in texting charges. Should Verizon require a mandatory $20/mo unlimited texting charge also? I don't text at all but I DO IM chat via data feeds which incur no extra data charges. IF telcos charged for lightweight text-only data streams lke that which use no more than about 100 Meg a month I'd probably throw a fit too. Which is why state AG's and Congress are looking into why texting charges are so high on a pay-as-you-go basis.
I agree that the business model which is at issue here is in serious need of revision in order to better serve the needs of both provider and consumer in a fair and equitable manner. i don't claim to know what the solution is, but I think Sprint so far has come closest in their Everything plans. Maybe AT&T and VZW would do well to look at that model and implement something similar.
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My brain is so full of S (Entropy, that is), I don't know anything anymore.
I don't like paying exhorbidantcharges for data either, but for the value of having internet available on a smartphone is, $30 bucks a month isn't all that bad, and given a choice between $30/mo and $4000 there is no question as to which is a safer choice.
Until last November there was a third choice, that of not using data. Now that choice is gone. I just want it back.
If you have read this entire thread then you will know that I have offered real solutions that would prevent $4000 bills of any kind while at the same time increasing VZW's revenue stream through new customers.
That is exactly what we are talking about here! There are a great many of us that don't need internet on our phones! Several have posted in this thread. Why is it so hard to understand that and accept that we feel neglected and bullied by Verizon?
I use my smartphone everyday doing things that can't be done without a PDA and I have NEVER used internet in nearly 8 years of owning a smartphone. I might have sampled internet if I felt welcomed to without being locked into a costly plan. Who knows, I might have gotten hooked!
But as it is now, I will never even try it!
If you insist on analogies, I will admit that I have internet on my computer (obviously), but I do many completely worthwhile things that don't require it.
To everyone: Please don't make blanket statements based on only one person's opinion and viewpoint as if it is the whole truth. Try to see that there are many different ways to use our great devices, and respect those different ways and people even if their opinion differs from your own. Also try to respect that those people may be unhappy with the state of things and wish for a solution that accomodates everyone (which I believe to be entirely possible, see above).
If one is to get an Omnia, they're locked into getting a data plan. There is no other option. That's the concept. Maybe "locked" isn't the best word, but I see what Ozzy's saying.
But then this is part of the beauty of the solution I've come up with. Allowing people to be charged by day (or week) instead of by KB, it would put a max cap on the cost (the solution I have above would be limited to $80 a month at a rate of $20 a week) and would allow Verizon to not only offer the phone with (technically) no data package, but also allow them to offer free day passes with the purchase of the phone. Then people can sample and might even get hooked.
If one is to get an Omnia, they're locked into getting a data plan. There is no other option. That's the concept. Maybe "locked" isn't the best word, but I see what Ozzy's saying.
But then this is part of the beauty of the solution I've come up with. Allowing people to be charged by day (or week) instead of by KB, it would put a max cap on the cost (the solution I have above would be limited to $80 a month at a rate of $20 a week) and would allow Verizon to not only offer the phone with (technically) no data package, but also allow them to offer free day passes with the purchase of the phone. Then people can sample and might even get hooked.
Dan, I like your solution too, as long as I don't have to buy it if I don't want to. And I especially like it if a week (or day, whatever is minimum) automatically begins when I access the internet the first time, ends when the minimum time has elapsed, and doesn't restart until the next time I access the internet. For example: I buy a new phone without data. I decide to play with it at first, and so I set up my email accounts. Data starts now and lasts for 1 week. The following month I go on vacation and need to access Google maps. Data again starts now and lasts for 1 week. Love it!
Thanks for offering an alternative solution. Now everyone who likes this idea should go here: www.verizonwirelesssurvey.com and tell them you want this implemented.
I am truly happy for those of you who love your data plans, and I wouldn't change that in any way. They just don't work for me, and I want an option that does so that I can get a shiny new phone, too.
Then maybe VZW should offer to block data and not subsidize the device.
Can I ask everyone here an honest question. Would you really pay the full retail, non-subsidized price for a phone like the omnia to bypass the data feature? I know that might sound like me being sarcastic, but I am truly being serious. I think that this is also a pretty decent idea. I still think Echews and Ozzys ideas would fit the business best (in previous posts). I was just curious if someone would really spend that much for the phone. If my work didnt pay for my data plan now I wouldnt have a need for it, so for me personally I wouldnt pay the extra price to have the phone. Thoughts anyone?
If one is to get an Omnia, they're locked into getting a data plan. There is no other option. That's the concept. Maybe "locked" isn't the best word, but I see what Ozzy's saying.
That is not what Ozzy said. Ozzy said that she may have sampled the internet during the past 8 years if she wasn't going to be locked in. My question is when during the past 8 years was this feature locked in?
That is not what Ozzy said. Ozzy said that she may have sampled the internet during the past 8 years if she wasn't going to be locked in. My question is when during the past 8 years was this feature locked in?
Not to be a nit-picker, but Ozzy would be a he, not she.
And by "locked in", I am refering to any data plan with a monthly fee. Sorry if my wording didn't adequately describe my feelings.
To argue about what I meant by "locked in" is to miss the point of my comments, which is: I will only be happy with a pay-as-you-go data plan with a fee cap, or else the option of no data at all. I would also accept the old pay-as-you-go with no fee cap, but I will never sample the internet in that case.
I do not currently have any of those three options available to me, and we have shown why Verizon's reasons for denying these options are poor indeed. I am not the only one who feels that way.
As always, thanks for the conversation.
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Downhills and tailwinds, 73
Last edited by ozzybiker : 01-18-2009 at 07:16 PM.
Anyway, I am Nate. I have yet to officially meet you, but I work currently with indirect. For a while I did work corporate in chicago and then also did b2b with vzw corporate for about a year before moving away from the big city! 
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