What I am saying is that as things are right now the hardware MUST overwrite old data to continue if the hardware is, in fact, within SD1.0 compliance. The fact that it lets him at all is likely a firmware bug, but a bug won't allow real usage of anything over 4GB, it will just pull the overwriting files crap and then tell you it's not really doing that.
I guarantee that the person with the "working" card is having this problem and just doesn't realize it yet.
Ok so Techmillion is being tricked into believing it's reading and writing 8GBs of data when it really is doing less than 4GBs and recycling crapy info.
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The only alternative explanation is that someone, somewhere, decided to make 8GB standard SD cards with 2byte allocation and is selling them without any branding on them anywhere. Note in the pictures how it uses the SD trademark, not the SDHC mark. Look here SD Association The cards that guy is selling are not only non-compliant but most likely rather buggy, which would explain the fluke of it "working" at all.
I and several other have this non compliant SD Card and it doesn't work for us..but I guess it doesn't really help anyone is what you're saying..It can't work over 4 GB.
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To make this work correctly you will have to rewrite the firmware in the SD reader itself, requiring you to burn a new ROM chip for it to use and solder the new one into place. That is assuming they are in fact pin compatible.
If you were willing to go through that trouble, it would in fact be easier to find a pin compatible SDHC reader and swap with the SD in the device already there... and just rip the driver for the new reader from whatever device you take it out of.
You know what would be cool, is if someone made an SD Adapter to be able to universally make SDHC complaint to any device that uses SD..like a Micro SD Adapter that can allow you to read though I wonder how fast people behind SDHC would sue. I wouldn't mind doing this as I believe I will be with this device for a while now but I haven't a clue on how to do this.
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In any case, I want anyone who purchased a non-working SDHC card to try something for me. Repartition the card on your computer so that there is just one partition, and make the partition 3.72GB in size. 3.72GB exactly. Format the new partition, then try it again to see if it works in the i730 slot. This will possibly say whether the hardware itself is capable of reading an SDHC card at all (though it will most likely still fail due to overall drive size being registered).
I would try this with my 8GB SD Card, but I can't seem to figure out how to select what capacity I want for a partition let alone find a way to partition it in any sense. If someone can direct me on how to do it I'd appreciate it.
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The way that companies market their material is that most mean 4 billion bytes when they write 4 gigabytes, which is a vastly different number. 4 biillion bytes (4,000,000,000 bytes) is only 3.72 GB, whereas a true 4GB card would be 4,294,967,296 bytes (hard drive companies do this all the time, selling 187 GB drives with the label "200GB"... which means for every 500GB of drive you actually lose ~32GB, the bastards)
Now then, you mention people hacking kernels and firmware to use SDHC cards in non-HC slots, can you show me to one of those projects so that I don't have to spend the time looking? (I am, at the moment, trying to see how hard it would be to make a Windows CE 6 image for my phone, so I don't feel like googling around while I'm working on this
Some of these I can't make heads or tails of it, and I may be mixing some posts with other ones, but I am on like page 19 of google searching for "How to Partition SDHC"..
If you do a search for Treo SDHC hack or something along those lines you will see several different ways they have gotten SDHC working on their devices..old and new. One of the ways they get it done is to put a FileZ driver on their device..other patch it some other way..I've seen at least 3 different ways to get it done.
If someone could let me know how to partition my 8GB SD Card I can let you know if what you suggested we try works. Thanks for adding some new info on this. I can say I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want this to work. Thanks.
What I was saying about the non-compliant cards is that you can't expect reliable results from them. They are most likely cheap chinese counterfeits. If you could find some from the same batch as Tech had you might run into the same bug, but I imagine the guy who sells them has gone through multiple orders so far. Take a look at the cards from sellers on this page: Pricewatch ® - 8GB SDHC
See how they all show both the SDHC and manufacturer on the front? That's the industry standard, anything that doesn't show those is not something you should ever buy...
If that doesn't work I can walk you through how to do it on a bootable linux CD, but that is a lot more risky if you don't know what you are doing. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, I'll find a couple more tonight if partition magic doesn't work out for you.
What I was saying about the non-compliant cards is that you can't expect reliable results from them. They are most likely cheap chinese counterfeits. If you could find some from the same batch as Tech had you might run into the same bug, but I imagine the guy who sells them has gone through multiple orders so far. Take a look at the cards from sellers on this page: Pricewatch ® - 8GB SDHC
See how they all show both the SDHC and manufacturer on the front? That's the industry standard, anything that doesn't show those is not something you should ever buy...
If that doesn't work I can walk you through how to do it on a bootable linux CD, but that is a lot more risky if you don't know what you are doing. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, I'll find a couple more tonight if partition magic doesn't work out for you.
I have Partition Magic 8, do you think build 8.05 is that much different? It doesnt eve show up as an extended drive or anything at all. Ill uninstall it and see if the latest build works.
I don't think a newer version will help at all then.
I don't actually use windows, so I wasn't able to test it beforehand.
Give me a minute and I'll try to write up an easy alternative really fast for you.
Cool thanks. BTW I tried to use the Adminstrator Tools in Windows XP, the Command Prompt in XP, the other programs I believe I listed, and they either only let me format in FAT 32 or don't recognize it at all. The only one that lets me do anything but FAT32 format is the HP one I mentioned..But I don't see options for partitioning for SDHC anywhere. I also believe I installed the Windows SDHC support for XP as well.
Just out of curiosity, do you have a broadband connection?
And a CD burner?... and a blank CD handy?
I have DSL a DVD/CD burner, and I can look around for a blank cd..uh oh..something tells me you're going to have me get into the world of Linux for the first time...Scared If I were to do it this way wouldn't that mean it would only work/be recognizable/read and write in Linux?
Alright, we can do this a quick way, or a slow way that is possibly safer but might not work, requiring you to resort to the quick possibly dangerous way anyway. It's up to you, let me know which you want to do first.
If you want to just get down to the more likely fix, just download the second file and I'll get you some directions in a minute... either way, let me know whether you want to try the VMware way or not, so I know whether I have to make a machine for you to use.
Also, no, Linux just lets us get at the raw hardware, whereas Windows tries to protect you from yourself.
Linux will still allow you to format the drive as FAT16 or FAT32, which will make it readable in both your PC and, hopefully, your i730.
You might hold off on downloading that second file until I make sure it has everything that is needed first though. Go ahead and download the VMware Workstation trial though.
Alright, we can do this a quick way, or a slow way that is possibly safer but might not work, requiring you to resort to the quick possibly dangerous way anyway. It's up to you, let me know which you want to do first.
If you want to just get down to the more likely fix, just download the second file and I'll get you some directions in a minute... either way, let me know whether you want to try the VMware way or not, so I know whether I have to make a machine for you to use.
how about the safe way first. what are the risks with the second way. if I can backup my data on my laptop I won't care that much..but it depends on the danger as you stated.
Main risk in doing it the "easy" way is that you might screw up all the data on your hard drive if you mis-type something. It would require a complete reinstall of windows, which isn't too bad but is a pain in the butt.
The "safe" way requires you to download VMware and the other file, but there is no risk of messing up the rest of your information at all. It just adds a couple steps to the process. Also, if you have any sort of instant messenger PM me with your screen name, otherwise this may end up being a 20 post process.
Just an observation, very interesting thread. When my wing first came out they were saying up to 2 gig micro sd but a later firmware upgrade made it compatible with sdhc and supposedly folks have used 8 gig cards in it...so possibly at least in the case of newer hardware somekind of firmware update can make it work. I have a 4 gig sdhc card in my wing no issues (that I know of). Sometimes folks it's better to stick with a big name brand like sandisk or lexar because they are making sure the standards are stuck too where joe fly by night micro sd producer in china may not be.
What I am saying is that as things are right now the hardware MUST overwrite old data to continue if the hardware is, in fact, within SD1.0 compliance. The fact that it lets him at all is likely a firmware bug, but a bug won't allow real usage of anything over 4GB, it will just pull the overwriting files crap and then tell you it's not really doing that.
I guarantee that the person with the "working" card is having this problem and just doesn't realize it yet.
The only alternative explanation is that someone, somewhere, decided to make 8GB standard SD cards with 2byte allocation and is selling them without any branding on them anywhere. Note in the pictures how it uses the SD trademark, not the SDHC mark. Look here SD Association The cards that guy is selling are not only non-compliant but most likely rather buggy, which would explain the fluke of it "working" at all.
Now, that aside, this is a hardware problem, not a software, so it can't be fixed like it is with cameras.
Cameras have software upgradeable firmware in their SD readers, the i730 does not (hence why the samsung people say it is a hardware issue rather than a firmware problem)
To make this work correctly you will have to rewrite the firmware in the SD reader itself, requiring you to burn a new ROM chip for it to use and solder the new one into place. That is assuming they are in fact pin compatible.
If you were willing to go through that trouble, it would in fact be easier to find a pin compatible SDHC reader and swap with the SD in the device already there... and just rip the driver for the new reader from whatever device you take it out of.
In any case, I want anyone who purchased a non-working SDHC card to try something for me. Repartition the card on your computer so that there is just one partition, and make the partition 3.72GB in size. 3.72GB exactly. Format the new partition, then try it again to see if it works in the i730 slot. This will possibly say whether the hardware itself is capable of reading an SDHC card at all (though it will most likely still fail due to overall drive size being registered).
The way that companies market their material is that most mean 4 billion bytes when they write 4 gigabytes, which is a vastly different number. 4 biillion bytes (4,000,000,000 bytes) is only 3.72 GB, whereas a true 4GB card would be 4,294,967,296 bytes (hard drive companies do this all the time, selling 187 GB drives with the label "200GB"... which means for every 500GB of drive you actually lose ~32GB, the bastards)
Now then, you mention people hacking kernels and firmware to use SDHC cards in non-HC slots, can you show me to one of those projects so that I don't have to spend the time looking? (I am, at the moment, trying to see how hard it would be to make a Windows CE 6 image for my phone, so I don't feel like googling around while I'm working on this)
i did this for my micro hcsd card and it wroked in my lg (like the chocolate but a flip phone) however i lost my phone with the card in it so i cant test it on the i730 but when i got my micro card it would not work in my lg so i formated it and its file size went down to about 3.68 gb and then it worked fine in it i honistly dont know why but i think in these cards they try to compress every thing on them and when i formatted it i deleted the file that tells it to format fyi the card was kingston 4gb hcsd micro jest in case u need to know that also note that my other 2gb micro sd cards work in the i730 jest fine with the addapter so in short i found a way to make this work on my lg (before reading this post) and im sure it would work on the i730
oh if u have any questions my email is foxfauxfree@yahoo.com
Here's a link to Intel's PXA27x Manual. It's been a while since I've read the MMC/SD spec, so my conjectures here could be offbase.
Is MMC operating mode less restricted than SD mode? Is there a possibility that the 8GB SD card is really programmed to operate only in MMC mode (thus not having any of the special SD features availabel)? Or maybe the 8GB SD card is programmed with a larger block size (and maybe 'technically' violating the SD spec)?
Here's a link to Intel's PXA27x Manual. It's been a while since I've read the MMC/SD spec, so my conjectures here could be offbase.
Is MMC operating mode less restricted than SD mode? Is there a possibility that the 8GB SD card is really programmed to operate only in MMC mode (thus not having any of the special SD features availabel)? Or maybe the 8GB SD card is programmed with a larger block size (and maybe 'technically' violating the SD spec)?
N
From what I understand its just like any other SD Card except its formatted in FAT32 so I would THINK its a software limitation..but not sure. Odd though that you can get the i730 to recognize 5GBs of a particular 8GB card with the SDHC hack, so it seems that it depends on how the software on the card is designed that makes more of it to be available..? Where you going with this? Sounds interesting.
If I were to do it this way wouldn't that mean it would only work/be recognizable/read and write in Linux?
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