iPhone Fees....

So the iPhone battery will only take between 200-300 charges, then you have to send the iPhone to apple, pay them $80, they hold the phone for 3 business days (you are SOL if you send it on a Thursday I guess) and potenially pay them $30 to use a loaner iPhone while yours is in the shop getting a new battery.

So for me, when I get home from work, I need to charge my phone (5pm) then I do yard work (new house) and use my phone for a bit more, then charge it on my nightstand when I go to bed. Weekends I probably charge my phones twice a day as well, just incase I am going out that evening so I have a full charge.

300 charges, 2 charges a day, that gives me 150 days or roughly 4 to 5 months of use, then pay apple $80, be w/ out my phone for nearly a week, use my phone for another 4 to 5 months and pay apple another $80...

Apple wants to put What in their mouth??? yeah right.... you have to either have lots of extra money laying around and want to use a toy phone w/ ZERO practicle uses while trying to use the slowest data network to browse the web with no stylus... my fingers kept hitting the wrong web links on web pages.

Anyone wonder why apple only sold just over 100,000 of these the 1st weekend when they thought 500,000 would be the magic number? Well because the iPhone is just a bad product, on a bad carrier for data, and you have to use a bad minute plan.

Other than that, it's great to look at!! ooooooo shinny!! (sarcasim galore)

I'll come back w/ more positivly bad stuff w/ the iPhone when I'm done customizing one of my new 3rd party apps on my mogul.

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iPhone 3G (sorry Sprint, I have been to the mountain top!) <-- Sprint Mogul PPC 6800 (not enough memory) <-- PPC 6700 (loaner from sprint) <-- PPC 6600 (no EVDO) <-- G1000 (no SMS) Cardo Scala-500 BT
I'm rockin Verizon Fios baby! 20Mbs is dumb fast! http://www.speedtest.net/result/295783856.png

As many people have said, the iPhone is marketed to a different crowd then us. However they are marketing it as if it is the first phone to operate like a smartphone or PocketPC phone. It has a couple of good ideas I am sure we will see on the next generation PocketPC phones. I just hope we keep the keyboard and buttons. The browser magnifier would be a nice to have feature.

Apple, we too can browse the real Internet!

"Anyone wonder why apple only sold just over 100,000 of these the 1st weekend when they thought 500,000 would be the magic number? Well because the iPhone is just a bad product, on a bad carrier for data, and you have to use a bad minute plan.
"

And out of that number how many went back before the 30 day trial was up is the big question, that number will never be disclosed.

I just upgraded my i500 to Mogul last week after closely comparing among iPhone, Helio Ocean, Mogul and Treo 755P. With all things considered and further motivated by the SERO's rediculous low rate, I have chosen the Mogul. There is no perfect phones out there and you have make compromises to settle on one which can best serve your needs. I don't think that any serious cell phone users can live without 3G network nowadays. iPhone's innovative UI is what industry should mimic and improve on. But UI alone is not the deciding factor for selecting a right phone for you, especially in the business world. The lack of 3G support, real keyboard, GPS, replaceable battery, ample applications, choice of carriers and open developing environment make iPhone a wrong choice for serious users.

HTC Vogue will arrive in coming months. It is an EVDO version of Touch. It is sort of like an iPhone with Mogul inside. TouchFLO makes a good start to mimic iPhone's navigation method. But it doesn't have iPhone's shortcomings. It even has 128mb RAM the Mogul lacks. That will be my dream phone for my future upgrades.

I read the Vogue expected battery is 1150 mAh and with 128mb ram it will eat more power. Also the screen is still 2.8", while iPhone is 3.5", that is the main thing that makes the iPhone nice is 480x320 res. I wonder what will come of 'google phone', they were supposed to be working with HTC or samsung last I read.

Talk time will be shockingly bad on the Vogue. Think Moto Q except even worse!

I'm pretty sure your numbers with regards to sales figures and charge cycles of the iPhone are off by quite a bit.

I love the capability of the Mogul, but I think it sucks that the hardware seems to be at least a full generation behind what they've integrated into the iPhone (3G aside). I think in the end, I may stick with the Mogul based purely on cost. This is pretty darn significant since you could essentially squeeze an Archos 605 Wifi (160 GB version) or the next iteration of iPod into the price gap between the Mogul and the iPhone especially if you go the full 2 year term of either contract. It'd be neat if you could somehow tether the Archos unit off the Mogul similar to like a Palm Folio type idea. I'm kind of thinking having a truly converged all in one gadget is basically not going to happen within this generation of devices. There's simply too many concessions you have to make with any single device.

I wonder if it's just mine, but the speaker on this Mogul is quite literally the worst of basically any phone i've had that's actually had a speaker.

Battery is the LAST reason I returned it. It's 200-400 FULL charges. A typical day is 1/3 of the battery. So that's about 600-1200 charges 2-4 years. Battery on the iPhone is the best i've seen on a PDA phone. I'm sure there will be plenty of 3rd parties that will replace battery cheaper too. This with a bigger brighter, sharper screen. WIFI although uses more power does extremely well. I'd rather have iPhones power management and capacity than have to carry around spare batteries during the day any time. I'll be the first to bash stupid choices Apple made but I'll also credit them where they made good choices. The Battery is perfectly fine. Your comparing battery usage to historically poor PDA devices.

They activated 150,000 in the first weekend and they expected 200,000-500,000. It's really hard to say. AT&T was super overloaded and may not have got everyone activated that tried on the same day they bought it. They may have sold boatloads over internet as well. There are not that many Apple stores around either to actually sell them. AT&T could not sell them initially.

It really is a very nice device. I almost kept it with no Voice/Data Plan. I look forward to when other PDA/Phone makers borrow some ideas from Apple. I love the touch screen.

I played around with an iPhone this past weekend, first time hands on. Absolutely fell in love with the form factor, it is a seriously beautiful phone. I was almost embarrased by the brick of a Mogul weighing down my pants pocket.

I played around with the UI and I realized that other than the smoothness/quickness of the UI, I could not see what the big deal was about. For me there was no substance, ie: I missed all my Pocket PC functionality and programs.

Also while on the internet with the iPhone I was not impressed with the viewing system. I much prefer PIE's intelligent one column view, I don't think I've encountered a regular web page that PIE could not put into a one column view. I found that the hunt and zoom was tedious at best, with scrolling still required after zooming.

Also tried out the keyboard, wow it was bad. I know the adaptive technology gets better with use, but even at 100% accuracy I could not see typing too many things with it. I will never give up my stylus text entry, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why the makers of the Newton left out stylus entry.

Overall I was left with a vague yearning to buy it based on the physical beauty of it and the coolness factor, yet I sensed a distinct emptiness inside myself I knew would grow after purchasing it and staring into its empty soul.

I know what you mean. I just got my wife a Moto Q. Holly smoke the earpiece and speaker phone blows away the iPhone or the Mogul. It's LOUD and clear. Very impressive. All phones should be this good.

Trust me it grows on you. That was the only thing that was keeping me holding on for as long as I did. I was willing to give up a lot just for that. You need to learn a bunch of little tricks (gestures) to get better at it. A lot of sites just don't work or make sense when you force them into a small column. Safari finds "visual columns". You see what it looks like putting your photos on it. And I'm sure a lot of folks here have nice cameras. All web controls, tabs, dropdowns etc. work. It's hit or miss with PIE. It's just no contest.

But it's a dream, no CDMA iPhone. I did try a 3G Razor (for my wife) and it was better when in 3G areas. So when a 3G iPhone shows up I'll have another look. But with this new Sprint SERO plan that may be tough to swallow. I'm paying $60.00 for 2 data phones on SERO. With AT&T equivelent would be about $160.00.

I think you are waaaay off, there is no way that 300 charges on the iPhone will last 2 - 4 years. And I know for me, when I get home from work, my Mogul's battery is on average around 40%, sometimes more sometimes less. So for my usage, the iPhone would be costing me at least $160 a year in battery replacment Fees. Granted, the iPhone doesn't do a single useful thing since it's only a toy, so perhaps I actually wouldn't even use it that much except to make a call and perhaps play an occational mp3 (great use of my $400 for the phone).

Sorry, I just don't see why someone would use that minute plan, want to pay apple battery replacement fees one or two times a year, and then come to realize that the phone is pretty much useless in real world application anyway.

Mogul:
I can play movies/videos
I can play 4 gigs worth of mp3's
I can browse the web faster
I can download and install 3rd party apps FROM THE PHONE
I can type on screen or via stylish keyboard
I can use a stylus
I can see the bright screen indoors and outside
I can charge the battery over and over and over again w/ out fear
I can get a 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and 6th battery if I feel bold and oh change it myself
I can watch TV on my Mogul
I can use it as a remote for my tv (if I was really board)
I can talk to it and it does what I say (open app, call jon brown)
I can back-up my data onto the microSD card

Oh and I bought my Mogul for $99

iPhone is the suck.

__________________
iPhone 3G (sorry Sprint, I have been to the mountain top!) <-- Sprint Mogul PPC 6800 (not enough memory) <-- PPC 6700 (loaner from sprint) <-- PPC 6600 (no EVDO) <-- G1000 (no SMS) Cardo Scala-500 BT
I'm rockin Verizon Fios baby! 20Mbs is dumb fast! http://www.speedtest.net/result/295783856.png

I don't think it would grow on me at all. I think it would be the opposite, as I got used to the beauty and took it for granted, I would NOT find the advanced functionality I am used to in a WM device. I got the feeling that it would not fulfill my needs at all. The iPhone to me is much better suited as a standalone ipod with wifi, and when they do release one I may be inclined to take a peek.

In regards to PIE, I have not found a site that does not look adequate in the one column view, even forums look decent. Forums on the iPhone looked truncated on the sides with the zoom, although I only tested one. I'm still scratching my head on whats so revolutionary about the iPhone browser, maybe I need to play with it more. But as tested, I'd rather look at CNN.com on my Mogul.

I had the MotoQ for a while, and felt it was lacking next to a full WM device, but I tolerated its shortcomings because it had insanely good phone functions, the earpiece and speaker were insanely good. From what I have read on many official reviews is the iPhones earpiece/speaker are MEH, and bringing it down even more is the GSM call quality. I made one quick call on the stores iPhone and there was some weird buzzing that, call me crazy, got worse if I put it next to the speaker that was in the display. If the earpiece/speaker were just phenomenal like the Q I could see maybe sacrificing the WM qualities and maybe getting a dedicated PPC or bringing my laptop with me. But we don't even have that.

It does bring me full circle to the fact that 99.9% of the masses do not want a true smartphone, but are more than happy with the iPhone being more flash than substance, even in the core phone functions. Nothing wrong with that as people vote with their wallets, and last I checked it was 270k iPhones that sold. I have a feeling that even if MS did make their developers work towards a quality UI and forced their partners to rethink their clunky designs, the iPhone would still outsell them. We are just different kinds of users who demand much more from our machines. That's why instead of opting for the empty beauty of the iPhone, I have opted for the frustrating but ultimately satisfying Mogul.

"... staring into its empty soul"--SpineDoc, that's deep!

And yes, the Q is "insanely" great as a phone compared to any other converged device I've had my hands on.

Todd/Indy

It is funny how some people can find the little things to bash about just about any device and make them seem so significant. I'm not accusing anyone of hating or bashing, but just based on articles I've read online and some blogs, it sure seems that people either love the iPhone or hate it completely. It is also easy to forget that what makes these products different also strengthens the market as changes come based on responses to other manufacturers introductions of new ideas.

So, to say that the iPhone is useless in real world application is a bit of an overstatement, as I (an IT Director in my job) have been using mine quite happily for the last 4 weeks, and the list of things that the Mogul can do as presented are mostly subjective.

I'm glad that you like the Mogul, it is a very nice device. To call the iPhone a toy, and useless simply tells me that you have never actually used one, since there are a lot of innovative things that you might actually like. (And I have used a Mogul, and like I said, it is a nice device.) No need to start name-calling. We should all try to keep an open mind when discussing comparisons.

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John

PDAPhoneHome Forum Moderator

I have used the iPhone for a bit and like Spindoc didn't see it being of much use. What realworld uses have you found for the iPhone over the past 4 weeks that the Mogul can't do?

__________________
iPhone 3G (sorry Sprint, I have been to the mountain top!) <-- Sprint Mogul PPC 6800 (not enough memory) <-- PPC 6700 (loaner from sprint) <-- PPC 6600 (no EVDO) <-- G1000 (no SMS) Cardo Scala-500 BT
I'm rockin Verizon Fios baby! 20Mbs is dumb fast! http://www.speedtest.net/result/295783856.png

I guarantee there will be nice apps. They already have a compiler for it and already tethered it.

I have never replaced a battery on any phone or laptop yet.

>I can play movies/videos
You play movies on iPhone too and they look a heck of lot nicer.
>I can play 4 gigs worth of mp3's
You can put 8 on iPhone and you can sync it. What's the big deal.
>I can browse the web faster
Guess you have not tried it. It browses just as fast. I think it because the Processor can decompress images faster.
> I can download and install 3rd party apps FROM THE PHONE
Do some googling. There will be apps. tons of them
> I can type on screen or via stylish keyboard
I rather not have the squeak and creek as I squeeze the buttons.
> I can use a stylus
If you read some objective posts on forums (they do exist) that list pros and cons (people know they are giving up some things). A pro is 9 of 10 times is listed as I DON'T have to use a stylus.
> I can see the bright screen indoors and outside
Now I know your not being objective and just hung up on what you bought. iPhone screen trounces anything out there and auto adjusts to ambient light. I can barely see Mogul screen on bright sunny day and iPhone is very clear.
> I can charge the battery over and over and over again w/ out fear
I can get a 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and 6th battery if I feel bold and oh change it myself
If your on your 6th battery on a unit then buy a unit that gets better battery life.
> I can watch TV on my Mogul
If edge speed can handle it (I don't know to be honest) it will exist.
I can use it as a remote for my tv (if I was really board)
> I've seen people do this years ago, it's usually a joke. Just because you can do something do really want to. Honey can you hang up so I change the channel.
> I can talk to it and it does what I say (open app, call jon brown)
It doesn't today it probably will tomorrow.
> I can back-up my data onto the microSD card
I never take my card out neither do most people. I sync it. Every time you sync you have a complete backup of iPhone.

If you knew what you were talking you would have listed some REAL issues with iPhone, but you didn't list ANY of them.

Ahh, someone did their homework and knows some of the REAL issues with the iPhone. You are 100% correct sir.

Define real world uses.... my first and foremost real world use is that it will simply work without any additional applications. Yes, there are a lot of things that it doesn't do. It's all a matter of choice.

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John

PDAPhoneHome Forum Moderator