Starting this thread for those of us who have or use the Treo 650 and waiting to take the bait on the 6700.
I hope to see some feedback and comments from users on this since there seems to be imprints of comments on other threads in this forum but probably belong on an independent thread.
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"Apology accepted Captain Needa..." Darth Vader
I'm jumping from my 650 to 6700 for several reasons: I like the PPC platform (and applications) more then the Palm - I always found the Palm platform cumbersome - especially when moving from application to application. Regarding the one-handed operation, I read somewhere (on some bulletin board) that the voice control is so good, you don't need the dial pad to call your address book (I hope that's true...).
Well, I think that like many, I am one of the guys who is currently trying to switch from his Treo 650 to a PPC 6700.
I can tell you that it is no easy choice. Here is what I can tell you from my minimal (one day) experience...
- The five way nav and favorites on the Treo are unbeatable for one hand operation. The screen on the Treo also kicks butt.
- I had good email clients on the Treo (chatter and versamail), but Outlook on the 6700 destroys the combination. Now, if my job would just get their act together so that I could get Push email through Activesync.
- Installed the Voice Dialing software... Pretty good. Allows you to access more than just contacts, so there is a plus there. The Treo VoiceDial was good, but didn't seem to work well for me on my 650.
- Size is a wash.
- Biggest advantage of the Treo - Exposed Keyboard and Access to SMS. For daily use, and quick responses, this cannot be beat. Shoot, for me, I could even answer text messages while driving. Won't try that one with the PPC. Keyboard was a bit cramped, but I doubt many Treo users would truly complain about that.
- I have 13 more days to determine what I will do. I use my device mostly for phone, email and SMS. The other stuff is just gravy. I am happy that I will now be able to look and use Excel, Word and such natively, but that was a minor plus for me.
- Battery life may be a concern, but with USB charging, you are never really far from a full charge. If you need more, get an extra battery or extended one.
- Big Question? Monday Palm may announce all new Treos. A 670 with the same software would, in my mind, kill the PPC 6700 for convenience, so that may change my mind.... All in all, the switch is intriguing for me this time....
I'm a T650 owner and am thinking of a switch as well. I have a PocketPC too but not as a phone. I've played with a 6700 beta.
Some comparisons...
- 6700 not as easy one-handed operation, particularly contact lookup. T650 is designed for one-handed operation.
True, but I found MS Voice Command fixes the "one handed problem." Even still, the treo is better for 1 handed use.
- 6700 has EVDO speed, up to 1MB and WiFi. T650 is 1xRTT/Edge typically 50-150Kb/sec.
True but you have to be in EVDO coverage otherwise you are going back to 1x anyway.
- Palm OS management a little more straightforward (IMHO). But PPC has better multitasking.
This is where I disagree. Although PPC does have multi-tasking, take a look at all the problems with MS Voice Command and programs like Netfront, SPB Pocket Plus, etc. It is because of multi-tasking that these programs are problems. Maybe its fixed in WM 5.0 but the resource problem is a real pain in WM 2003 SE.
- Battery life on T650 much better (standard battery). Both can have extended batteries.
Agreed. Treo battery life seems better than most PPCs. That might change due to WM 5.0. See Below.
- PPC apps eat much more memory than Palm apps.
Yeah but they also come with more memory than palm. Now with the NV Memory some of the older palm databases are taking up too much memory.
- T650 has non-volatile RAM. Won't lose memory if battery dies. (A big deal me thinks)
WM 5.0 also uses the NV memory to store all its data/programs. This in theory buys you more battery life because the OS doesn't shut down the phone as early. Reports from MS Developers is up to 50% more battery life out of WM 5.0 just because they aren't worried about data loss anymore.
I mentioned this briefly before and ruffled some feathers, but since we're all Treo 650 owners here, it may be safe to say it here: The usability of the Treo definitely seems better to me. I won't go into details now, but will probably do so at another time. The D-Pad and keyboard integration into the OS on the Treo just feels very natural and efficient. On the PPC I find myself unsure as to what I'm supposed to press next to get it to do what I want. Sometimes I'm using the joystick, sometimes the Tab key, sometimes the directional arrows. Often, there's overlap in what they all do. I would say that Windows Mobile has its roots in the Windows keyboard shortcuts. So using the tab key to move from field to field on a web form or to change the active highlighted button works very similarly (too bad there's no Shift/Tab function to tab backwards). One other usability issue is that while the Treo highlights active objects with a blue highlight, WM uses a far less noticeable bolding or dotted line around an object. Remember that the screen is tiny and you may be using this outdoors, so it could be especially tricky to figure out what's highlighted in those situations.
Quality of plastics is very cheap looking on the 6700. This reminds me of my Treo 300. The 600/650 were a big improvement there. Personally, that's almost a non-issue for me. I'm agitated by the cheap look of my $600+ phone, but ultimately I'll make my decision based on features and how well it all works for me.
Screen is brighter on the 650, which doesn't shock me since the 650's screen is blindingly bright. I've still got the clear protective sticky on my 6700's screen, so that's not ideal, but I'm pretty sure I noticed some real-world issues with the 6700 in this regard. Using it under bright sunlight I found it more difficult to read the phone app screen both with the brightness set to max and with the backlight completely off. In both cases, the 650 was better. Some of this, though, I think is the fault of Microsoft's colorful phone app which uses white text on a black background. It's pretty to look at in anything other than sunlight, but it's a bad choice usability/readability-wise under direct sun. For some reason I thought MS let you skin the phone app but I can't seem to find it. But if some 3rd party phone app would change the color scheme to be black text on a white background (or maybe white text on a black background), it might hopefully improve outdoor visibility significantly.
One odd thing I've noticed is that the front buttons won't turn the device on when it's asleep. You have to use the power button on top (near the MiniSD card slot and antenna). Wait...I just checked the system settings and this is configurable.
Anyways, these comments don't begin to even scratch the surface of how these two devices compare, but hopefully these extra insights are useful.
Something I wanted to ask which did raise my eyebrow...Treo 670 aka Windows on the Treo 650? Is that possible and someone mentioned in another forum this may be the announcement from Palm next Monday!
Holy smokes! if the Treo 650 had Windows PPC on it, then there would be NO REASON (IMO) to jump ship. Anyone agree?
I love the Treo 650 Nav button use and feel. So right about how its just "natural" on how to work the Ttreo 650.
How is Text messging on the 6700 vs the Treo 650?
How is the typing on the keyboard comparing both?
How is the case for both?
How is the phone use compared (ease of use, picture id)?
How is the video mail and picture mail compared to both?
Issues like MS word and excel don't need to be an issue because the T650 has the app that can create such docs in native .xls and word fomat.
I type on my Treo 650 with one hand while driving (ha, should not admit it but..) and even text message without every touching my stylus
I think that's going to be a big issue for treo 650 users. How much can be done without the stylus and how much does it pay to take us over the edge.
I'm really concerned about the "cheap" plastic feel of the 6700 you mentioned. that's not good.
the 650 is built solid and i've dropped it while in the case and its just built to last.
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"Apology accepted Captain Needa..." Darth Vader
Remember all of those folks who upgraded from a Treo 600 to a 650 and complained about how they were losing hard buttons? Well, this thing definitely could use some more dedicated hard buttons for launching apps. In closed mode, you've got a hard button for launching the phone app and a hard button for dropping down the "Start" menu On one side are a hard button for the voice recorder and launching IE and on the other a button for launching the camera app. I think you can reconfigure all of those and that's not bad in closed mode. When the keyboard is open, though, many of these buttons are less accessible and I feel like the device would benefit from some quick-launch apps around the keyboard. On that note, I also don't feel like the placement of the "Start" and "OK" buttons within the keyboard is ideal.
Speaking of the keyboard...did I mention that I like it much better than the Treo's overall? This was one of the biggest reasons I bought this phone. The feel of the keyboard is far from perfect, but back when I had a Treo 300 I longed for a roomier thumbboard and felt that the 600's was worse and the 650's was worse still. Again, the 6700's keyboard isn't perfect, but once I got accustomed to the flat keys, I definitely notice a huge improvement in terms of overall comfort.
For those of you who have the 6700 now, can you comment on the battery life as compared to the Treo 650. Of course we all know that the battery life on the 6700 isn't as good as the Treo 650, but I'd like to know how much worse it actually is. Acceptable? Drains way too fast? Have to recharge multiple times a day?
I do love the fact that the 6700 recharges via USB.
Originally posted by pcmedics911 I type on my Treo 650 with one hand while driving (ha, should not admit it but..) and even text message without every touching my stylus
Not for nothing, but you really shouldn't be driving while on your Treo, no matter HOW GOOD of an expert Treo typist you may be. What if you hit someone? Or cause a major accident? I know the person wouldn't be alive to type again if they caused injury to someone in my family while typing on treo..
I'm dying...not from the one handed driving (Oh, I may very well be suggesting I was driving in my sleep) but in any case, the Treo 700W!!!!
Nooooooooooooo.
No more comparison to the 650. Now the 700W.
I wonder if sprint is going to release their version anytime soon. I would almost leave the 6700 in a hearbeat. only drawback no built in wifi but other than that, its what all of treo goons love.
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"Apology accepted Captain Needa..." Darth Vader
Ok, I've had the PPC-6700 for about a week now and I'm sure there are other Treo 650 users who might be curious about comparisons.
I won't go into specs but brief uses:
Text messaging: The treo 650 keeps a converstion log for text messsages. beautiful. The 67000 does not. In order to text message an email address (johndoe@yahoo.com), you have to type 6245 then the email address in teh body of the text. That's lame. ON the treo 650, it recognizes the email address for text messages.
In addition, you can set the treo 650 to hide your text messages as they come in. I don't see that feature on the PPC6700.
Emails: Outlook is sweet (PPC6700) and versamail is ok (Treo 650). both do attachments and are decent apps.
Keyboard: I'm used to the keyboard on the treo 650 being on the front so you can reply instantly. With the PPC-6700 you have ot use the stylus or pull down the keyboard on the side. Not bad, but not as quick either.
Screen: Nice screen on the 6700. I will give it that.
Picturemail and Videomail: Treo 650 still has this feature, currently the PPC 6700 does not. You have to send pictures and videos by attachments. Sux.
Battery life: Treo 650 wins hands down.
Navagational button: The joystick on the 6700 is a little odd but I'll let 6700 users comment on it. I do like the treo 650 nav button it feels more stable.
Wifi: 6700 wins. No wifi built in on the treo 650
Phone signal: Both about the same I think.
I have another week with my PPC6700 before I have ot decide.
I'd like to hear from other Treo 650 users who are thnking of jumping ship to the PPC 6700 or have done so already. I'm' sure there are features I'm missing here that can be brought to light.
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"Apology accepted Captain Needa..." Darth Vader
One-handed navigation (keyboard closed on the 6700) is far better with the Treo 650. With the keyboard open, the 6700 does a better job than I expected it would, but is still lacking. Several apps (and I'm talking about built-in apps coded by Microsoft) don't recognize it properly and let you get at all of the functionality, requiring you to tap on the screen to accomplish some things. The joystick has good feedback, but I find that it digs into my thumb uncomfortably when I use it for more than a minute or so.
Bottom line: the Treo 650 is a functional tool and the PPC-6700 is an uber-geek's dream device. You decide which you want/need.
Bottom line: the Treo 650 is a functional tool and the PPC-6700 is an uber-geek's dream device. You decide which you want/need.
I'm not taking sides here at all but I want to point out that everyone that has posted here so far is being totaly subjective. The Treo looks like a very nice machine but it would never work for me as my main requirement for a converged device is data, data and more data. On that score the 6700 wins hands down.
The problem with any of this is that it really may not be a mattter of which machine is better than the other but which machine more readily fits your particular needs. That's why we have options on what we purchase. We don't have to go around trying to prove that what we have is better than someone elses, that's not what its about. Its just that we buy what better fits our particular needs.
one of the issues here is for those like myself who jumped or are considering a jump from the treo 650 to the ppc 6700.
the navagational joystick does wear on my thumb and it does not do justice compared to the treo 650.
a big plus is the web brower. I could never get on this site to post a reply on my treo 650 like I am doing now on the ppc6700.
the buttons are bigger than the treo 650 but I don't thing they are quite as durable. feels like these keys can just go out and it may e that the treo 650's buttons are made of a more durable plastic.
I find basic news sports etc comes up with pics a tad slower than the treo 650's basic text and limited brower graphics. reading text on news info does not change regardless of the nicer looking graphics. its still the same news.
I'm testing the batter life although it appears far weaker than the treo 650
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"Apology accepted Captain Needa..." Darth Vader
Good review pcmedics. I've been using the 6700 for nearly a week now, and am pretty sure I'm going back to the Treo 650. The 6700 is a great device, but MY main reasons for going back to the Treo 650 are the following:
1) I didn't realize how nice it is to have the keyboard right there in front of you all the time. I'm not fond of having to rotate and slide out the keyboard everytime I want type something.
2) The battery on the 6700 drains too quickly.
3) The 6700 didn't feel as solid as the Treo (I guess because of the slide out keyboard), and felt a bit more bulky against my face.
4) The WM 5.0 OS seemed a little sluggish here and there.
5) No SD support. The 6700 is definitely large enough for SD. I don't know why they had to go with miniSD.
There are a ton of great features of the 6700, such as WiFi, EVDO a Windows OS, and possibly the ability to get push email from Exchange 2003, but I think I'll wait for the Treo 700w.
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