I purchased a PPC-6700 on eBay listed as "New, Unused" but open box. Seller had 100% feedback.
I received it today and tried to activate it. Sprint told me it cannot be activated as it was reported as lost or stolen by a business customer.
I went back to further investigate the eBay seller, and I see he bought the phone there a few weeks ago. When he bought it the auction terms stated "ESN not clear". Obviously he didn't know what that meant so he bought it and when he couldn't activate he went to resell it. However in his auction he didn't mention that the ESN was not clear.
I tried to call him but the phone number listed with eBay is not his. I've emailed him and started a PayPal resolution dispute.
You are covered through eBay and PayPal. If you did not receive what the description explicitely said you have a case. Make sure you keep a VERY GOOD paper trail and save and print the item website clearly showing you as the winner and the description. You should get your money back, but it may take some time.
__________________
Bryan
"I'm not going anywhere NEAR that sabertooth snatch of yours." - Dr. Christian Troy
a buddy at work had a smiliar thing happen. he got a 6700 that was specified as 'new, never used'. when he got it, we opened it up, nothing was sealed in baggies. the original battery had been swapped for an el cheapo, the cradle was gone, no usb sync cable, and an el cheapo ac adapter and car charger was included instead. oh, and only 1 stylus. when he tried to activate it, same thing, the esn was blacklisted. fortunately for him, he refunded the phone, the seller refunded the money, and since then another ebay purchase has been made successfully. buyer beware SUCKS!
I hope I don't have a problem -- auction doesn't mention that the ESN is clear though, it certainly seems implied though in a "new, unused phone" doesn't it? It also doesn't mention any return policy. And, it was missing both styluses (styli?).
Sorry that happened to you but at the same time that's a question you want to ask the seller before you click "Confirm Bid" or "Buy Now". Better luck next time...
I hope I don't have a problem -- auction doesn't mention that the ESN is clear though, it certainly seems implied though in a "new, unused phone" doesn't it? It also doesn't mention any return policy. And, it was missing both styluses (styli?).
You can definately get him on the "new, unused phone". To me that sure does sound like new and unused...lol
Keep us posted. Like I said, I have had one or two bad auctions in the past and have gotten my money back since the auction description does not match what I received.
__________________
Bryan
"I'm not going anywhere NEAR that sabertooth snatch of yours." - Dr. Christian Troy
I did the ##run# to check and it showed that it had never been activated. I wanted to make sure of that before I activated so I would know it was new and could get insurance!
I have now done a BIN on another PPC-6700 where it specifically states the ESN is guaranteed to be clear and where the celler has much large number of good feedback and for selling phones specifically (unlike that original seller -- I should have looked at his feedback more carefully before bidding). Thanks.
Where in there can you tell if it is a used phone? There is no particular line. If the Mobile # and MSID are clear that just says that he did a reset (very easy through that menu with the MSL). I would think the only way to tell is by the timers that are in there which do not get reset when you do a full from factory not even programmed yet phone (know this since I have done 3 resets from the ##786# menu)
__________________
Bryan
"I'm not going anywhere NEAR that sabertooth snatch of yours." - Dr. Christian Troy
You the buyer are only guaranteed the full amount you paid (up to $1000) if the seller is enrolled in the Paypal buyer protecton program.
Many/Most sellers are not, so then you are only eligble to claim up to $175 back, no matter how much you paid.
Additionally, Paypal will make it sound like you give up all rights to the wonderful Paypal protections when you file a chargeback with your Credit Card, assuming you used your Credit card for payment instead of funds in your paypal account. In fact, accepting the Paypal Terms of Service, in effect, means (in their opinion) that you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account.
Don't even waste your time with Paypal if you did in fact use your CC, because Paypal will delay and stall until your chargeback rights expire, and you will get only the $175 back. With just about every Credit Card, you will get the full amount you were defrauded by filing a chargeback. It is Paypal's responsibility by letting a fraudulent seller take your money and provide you with an inferior or substitute product that was advertised. Paypal wants to make it seem that they are merely a conduit and/or facilitator in the transaction, but the Credit Card companies hold Paypal accountable for letting fraudulent sellers use their system, and you will win your chargeback, no matter what Paypal wants you to think. Their CSR's will also lead you to believe that their Dispute Resolution is the best option for you, but if used your Credit Card, don't be fooled.
From personal experience from getting burned twice and then taking the time to learn how their system works, always drain your Paypal account before a purchase. (In fact, always keep funds out, even after selling something). Do not add any funds from a checking or savings account, if you have one associated with your Paypal account.
Use your credit card to fund any and all purchases on Ebay. Do not use funds from you Paypal account. You give up many consumer rights and protections by doing so, and your limit for recovery is only up to $175.
Check out only by funding your Paypal purchase entirely with a Credit card, so that you can protect yourself from getting burned.
See the forums section at www.paypalsucks.com for more seller (and buyer) horror stories.
I think you may be in for more than just money. You may now be considered an accessory to a crime by holding onto a known lost/stolen phone.
Here is what I would do if I were in the situation:
1. Get a hard copy of all records you find/have on this phone, including any ebay things you mentioned to prove the trail of the phone how it got to you.
2. Try to contact the seller in multiple ways to get your money back.
3. File a police report.
4. If the phone was delivered via US Postal, also file a mail fraud case with the Post Office.
5. Drain the PayPal account funds to $0.
6. Try to get the money back from PayPal but like other members said, don't let them drag you beyond your credit card claim period.
7. If no success with PayPal within the credit card claim period, get a charge back from the credit card. Mind you that you may ruin your PayPal account from now on.
8. Instead of claiming refund thru PP or CC, you can also opt for doing a small claim case against the seller but depending on how far the seller is, it may not be feasible.
It is now to your knowledge that the phone was reported lost/stolen. You have acknowledged that you are in possession of lost/stolen property. You should definitely do the police report even if you decide not to pursue the money. This is for your own good. Sounds very scary but it is the fact.
If you used a credit card get them to charge it back. Before you do that you need to clear out your bank account you have registered with paypal by closing it and opening a new one.
If they want to play hard ball you can do the same. I'd also recommend getting a policy report and filing mail fraud charges.
You'd be suprised how co-operative people can become when the law gets involved. Most of the time people count on buyers being pussies and willing to bend over and take it as opposed to doing something about it.
You don't need to go as far as to clear out your associated external bank account and change the number. It is clearly stated in PayPal's TOS that they will not tap into that account to recover money from you without your permission.
But I agree that credit card is the only way to safely pay via PayPal. I too have been burned by a seller--twice. The most recent time Paypal recovered about 50% of what I was owed, but after reading their own TOS to them (it said that if their investigation caused my credit card chargeback window to elapse that PayPal would cover the difference--no idea if that provision is still in there) they credited me the rest back. However, I had to jump through a lot of hoops (including paying for the item to inspected/appraised by a third party and shipping the item back to the seller out of my own pocket).
Obviously caveat emptor as far as ebay is concerned, but in the future (esp. with expensive items like this) the QUANTITY of feedback is just as important as the quality. I would have much more faith in a seller with 97% based on 1000 transactions than 100% based on twenty. And sure enough, the two times I have been burned were when I "took a chance" on someone with <20 feedback @ 100%.
Good luck to you.
Last edited by luv2chill : 09-23-2006 at 03:28 AM.
Don't just look at the numbers either though. Even if someone has 1000 feedback with 99%, check to see WHAT the negative feedbacks are for. There are plenty of ebay retailers out there who purposefully screw people over because a few bad feedbacks here or there don't hurt them with the amount of transactions they do. You'll be able to see what happened, and if it sounds bad - and if they haven't responded to the negative feedback - think twice about spending money with them.
I personally won't buy from anyone who has more than a couple negative feedback (Even if they are in the 1000's of feedbacks) if they don't respond to negative feedback posts.
Well, I could tell the phone was not used because the ##786# -- last line said it was never activated.
The buyer has agreed to a return and refund and has already started the refund process with PayPal. In PayPal it shows that the refund funds (item cost plus shipping) are "pending" which I guess means awaiting transfer of the money from his bank. I am planning to ship the phone back tomorrow (Monday) -- with tracking info of course.
Is there anything I should be aware of or concerned about with this status?
I have decided to wait. Though I don't think the funds will actually post to the PP account since my payment was credit card funded. From the info on the PP site it looks like that when the refund is completed the funds will be returned to the CC account (fine with me). I will wait for the refund to exit the pending stage to completion. Thank you.
I was told by a Verizon salesman, that all you have to do when you buy a used phone is get the ESN and call Verizon and have them run it and they can tell you whether it is stolen or not. I bought my phone on Ebay and before I bid, I asked for the ESN and the seller gave it to me. I called Verizon and they said it would work and was clear so I bought it. I had a few sellers that wouldn't give it to me so I didn't bid. I would assume this would work for all carriers. Just another way to help protect yourself.
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