Tired of carrying Cell phone & PDA. Looking for an all in one phone. I use Palm OS on both a Mac & PC (mainly a Mac person). Need schedules, contacts and (downloadable) airline flight schedules handy at all times. Don't really need internet or email function. Do like having caller assignable ringtones ("Pride & Joy", "Here for the Party", "Crazy Train", Crazy on You", "Magic Man"). Do like the Get Now feature for current weather on my current Verizon (LG 6000) phone. Was looking at the Treo 600 but it is larger than I like and don't care about the internet feature. I also like flip phones. Thinking the 7135 with a memory card might do the trick. Any input would be helpful, sure there are things I my not be thinking of. Thanks

well I had a VX6100 before my 7135, and there is definitely a size difference in between these two phones!
but there are also a lot more you can do with a 7135.

I m not sure about compatibility with mac, but i bet it s not problem.
schedules and airline flights shouldn t be a problem neither. you can purchase applications that let you organize and plan your WHOLE trip.. these apps even update worldwide flight info and flight connections in real time.. straight on your pda.

I use my 7135 on a pc and a mce. Both work great. As for size.. if the treo is too big the kyo will be too as it is MUCH bigger. The Treo may be a touch taller, but it is not as wide and is a whole lot thinner. The Kyo is a big phone.

If you can get flight info on your palm, you can get it the same way on the 7135. I actually just go online and use the web to ckeck flight info. Works fine is immediately up to date.

__________________
Sandy Wagner

it s true that it is quite big.

it feels so confortable on my ear

Kyo sounds like a good option for you unless you need a lot of processor speed. I use a Mac and ISync with no problems, but can also HotSync with no problems to the Virtual PC that lives within my Mac. As far as size goes, you may need a case for a candy bar phone like the Treo but not for the Kyo, which balances out the size to some extent.

Also I agree with katone. The 7135 is a bit big in the pocket but the most comfortable cell phone to hold and use that I've ever tried. The size, width and angle when open are just right.

I use my Kyo for all of the following: Cell phone, Address book, Calendar, Calculator Checkbook, Foreign language dictionary, Text memos, Voice memos, Alarm clock / stopwatch / timer, Wireless modem for my laptop, Photo albums, Movie player, MP3 player for music & ebooks, Web surfing and checking email w/o laptop.

Plus you can get a Kyo 7135 for $100 after rebate with 1 year contract if you're not already a VZW customer: http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7135...buy-online.htm. That's $320 less than the 650 with all its rebates.

Some info on your pda would have been useful...
Most specifically, are you a grafitti person (graffitti 1 or graffitti 2) or are you a Thumber?

That is the most obvious difference between the two phones... Now, for some not-so-obvious...

All of these statements are comparative (between the 7135 and the 600). Some will stand alone...



POINTS FOR THE 600

The 7135 is slow. It's not just a noticable difference - it's huge.
Overclocking is not advised. The dragonball chip is not bullet-proof or forgiving. Also, overclocking really doesn't help that much, but it does drain the battery like crazy.
Use Quickbits here. It makes more difference than overclocking and has no impact on battery or cpu life.

An updated 7135 has Graffitti 2. Having had PDAs since the original Newton, and starting Palm with an original Pilot - I HATE Graffitti 2. Actually, "hate" is not a strong enough word... Use of third party apps (currently TealScript) to correct this deficiency affects the stability of the unit (see point 3).

Both of these units are buggy. The Kyo is buggier - and hasn't been fixed/upgraded YET - not likely to happen. A good case could be made that later SW versions were more unstable than earlier ones.
Have a sufficiently large enough SD card to put backups on - BEFORE you have important must-not-lose information on either one of these. And get a backup program. I use BackupMan. It works on both. I like it b/c it keeps the backups in a single archive - easier to manipulate.
Even with all of my Palms, I had never had data loss until my Kyo 6035 (the cigarette charger thing). And that's counting upgrade changes... Now, coping with data loss is a way of life. This will happen on the 600 as well.

The Kyo is actually more fragile than the 600. The hinge is of a particulaly poor design - and made with even poorer metal. It will fatigue and it will break. Whether that happens before or after you would crack the unprotected screen on the 600 is up to your particular carma. Additionally, the Captain Kirk communicator move is NOT recommended. Also be careful when closing it. Holding your Kyo between your shoulder and ear (look Ma, no hands) is a bad idea. Get an earphone (see "Additional Notes").

The 600 has a slightly better screen. The 650 is even better.

If you intend to use the MP3 player, just buy the Treo...
There is a half-way decent third party MP3 app for the Kyo, but it only will play 40 songs. I have several hundred on my SD card. Unfourtunately, that means I have to wait over 5 minutes for the built in MP3 player to come up (it re-builds the playlist EVERYTIME you run it). Playing MP3's and doing other things makes the Kyo certain to crash.

There is no build in camera for the Kyo. The "sold-seperately" camera modual is:
Expensive
Bulky
Featureless
A Joke

The buttons on the Kyo lack tactility - and are somewhat difficult to get "right" when dialing. They couldn't have picked a more awkward location for the back-light on/off button. However, all-in-all, they ARE phone buttons - the Treo's buttons are part of a qwerty keyboard.



POINTS FOR THE 7135
The Kyo has phone-button buttons.

The Kyo has Graffitti. Even Graffitti 2 is better than a thumb-board - if you can write.

The software/phone integration on the Kyo is several light years ahead of the Treo. Switching between the phone app and ANY other app is sooooo easy.

You can highlight a number in any highlightable text and dial it. On this well-used Kyo feature, you are S.O.L. on the Treo - even the 650.

The Kyo LOOKS better than the Treo - in every way.

The Kyo FEELS better than the Treo - in every way.
It feels like a phone. The 650 feels like a too-small PDA.

The Kyo has one button voice record for memos - even while talking on the phone.

You can swap out batteries in the Kyo - you can also do this on the 650, but it's not as easy. And if there is one phone with a shorter battery life than the Kyo 7135, it's the Treo 600.

The Kyo uses the "universal" charging plug. This is a plug that many cellphone companies are have gone to in a half-hearted attempt to standardize. About 1/2 of all new cellphones produced today all use the same 5 volt barrel connector. The 600 does not. You have to use a specific charging connector - and it is a PAIN. The 650 has an adaptor for the "universal" (it's still a pain).
The 650 charging plug natively matches the charging plugs of "modern" Palm devices.
The only caveat here is the 7135 charging cradle is sensitive to this. It will not work with all "universal" adaptors.

The Kyo's display is protected when closed.
The only real physical fault with the Kyo is the flip hinge. HOWEVER, breaking it is far less catastophic (usually) than breaking the 600's display. Read "Game Over, Dude"...
The Kyo will still be usable - and usually one side breaks first. You will only break both hinges simultaneously by mashing the phone while it's open (by holding your 7135 between your shoulder and head, perhaps).



ADDITONAL NOTES
The Kyocera stereo earbud set(TXCKT10008) works great on the Treo 600/650.
Phone calls are also in stereo when using them on the 600/650. Well - not STEREO, but sound comes out of both earbuds simultaneously...
(Didn't Kyocera say they didn't implement that b/c it was illegal?)

The Kyo is a bulky phone on the belt. But if you want to wear it there, get the pouch(TXLCC10010), not the folding cover(TXLCC10008). The folding cover has a swivel, and you attach the top part of the flip to your belt.... SOOOO, if you get in a bind - or are just active in what you do, the phone rotates - the heavy bottom part falls open - and you will very easily break the hinge (see point above). You could use the belt holster(TXLCC10019), but why wait? Get the pot-scrubber and the hammer out and just get it over with...
Oh - did I mention that the hinge fatigues with stress - and will eventually break.

I've covered most of the major bases here...
I feel qualified to make these judgements b/c I CURRENTLY own BOTH 7135s and a 650. The 650 (Sprint) is my "home" phone number and the 7135 is my business phone number (a regional carrier that gives me UNLIMITED nationwide + Canada for $60/mo). The 650 is obviously a new acquisition, while I've used the 7135 for over 2 years - and the 6035 prior to that.
Reading over this, I think I've got a lot of good information here (mayby the board Gods will make it a STICKY!!!). If you can think of any other questions you want answered - feel free to ask.

Hash

Who is your regional carrier?

I guess Hash has a better perspective, having used both Treo and Kyo extensively, but in defense of the Kyo I can say:

Not all units are buggy. Mine has worked fine for a long time. Even when playing MP3s while doing other things, I have had very few "unscheduled" soft resets and haven't had to do a hard reset in many moons. With BackupBuddy and HotSync, I've never had any significant data loss. I overclock my processor-intensive applications (specifically AcidImage for pictures and Kinoma for movies) with no problems, although undoubtedly the Treo is still much faster. (By the way, Quickbits caused lots of problems on my Kyo without accelerating the things I wanted to accelerate; I wound up deleting it.) And the hinge (as well as the whole case) seems really strong to me compared to most phones. Again I've had no problems. But others haven't been so lucky. I guess it's a quality control issue.

Also, from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) on the Treo you have to buy a 3rd party app just to do voice dialing. Yes you only have 30 voice dial numbers on the Kyo, but the voice recognition works really well in my experience. Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't have 30 contacts that I call so frequently that I really need them on voice dial.

To me the biggest drawbacks of the Kyo are:
* Lousy phone buttons - but I usually use voice dial or the address book, not the phone buttons
* Slow processor - but that matters only on a few applications
* Thickness - the Kyo is one thick pony!

I think Hash summed up the advantages of the Kyo quite well. In particular the phone/PDA integration is very good.

good comments Hash and bobodobo! I couldn't have said it better!
mg

__________________
Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.

i saw the 7135 for free after rebate on amazon with new vzw activation

Cellular South
www.cellularsouth.com
877-CSouth1



Just wait. I would go months at times with absolutlely no problems - followed by 1/2 dozen resets in one hour. Then again - I might just get one "Fatal Error - Reset" with no problem for weeks prior to or after recieving the error.

Be diligent with the backups - that was my main point anyway - a hard reset or other reason for data dump never schedules itself in advance...

[QuickBits]
I've never seen a problem with it, and I've had it since day... ummm... 3, I think. Any issues I ever had on the phone persisted with Quickbits turned off and/or removed. Quickbits does make a tremendous difference in the daily operation of the phone. Lag all but dissappears. The issues with the keypad tones (I have to keep mine turned on) also goes away.

[Overclocking]
Be careful here - the processor WILL fry. I've done it.
I did notice an improvement o/c'ng to 37MHz. However, the Quickbits difference was greater by far. Also, even @ 37MHz, battery drain was up significantly. Without o/c, I can make a full day on one battery. With o/c, I couldn't charge batteries fast enough.

[Voice Dialing]
I don't know - I don't see any reference in the manual to it. But I gave up on voice dialing about mid-tenure on the 6035. Not that there was any problem with it - it actually worked quite well on the 7135. And I had used it on the Samsung that I had previous. But, I really use my phone in a true mobile sense. Speed dialing works much better for me. As far as the address book - when I'm not moving it's very easy - since, with the 7135, you can use the keypad to enter letters to search (one-handed operation). However, I have (at last count) over 3500 name entries in my address book. Most of these have an average of 3 numbers. Muddling through all of these for a number is not missed much...

[Lousey phone buttons]
I purchased some clear rubber "feet" at the local electronics supply house - and shaved them to 1/2 height... They are self adhesive, (did I mention clear?), give a great tactile response, and can even be felt through the plastic cover of my case. Also, having been trimmed down, they do not actually touch the screen (watch out for this!)

[Slow Processor]
*Sigh*
I strongly recommend against o/c'ing, but the 7135 is a slug...
And as pointed out, Quickbits isn't equally effective in all apps.

[Thickness]
Whaddaya want? A Postage Stamp!!!?
Actually I wouldn't have minded if the 7135 was a little larger when open. And, I think that with the clamshell design, that could have been done and not impacted the closed size by much. But, the screen on the Treo is the exact same size as the 7135. (This is probably a clue...)
I use my 7135. Really use it. To me, it's features are not for cool-factor. It is a tool that I use to make money - and it has done a reasonably good job at it. A smaller phone would not be as effective.


Hash

Funny how our experiences are so different... My phone has been practically trouble free for 2 years - and I have about 20 3rd party apps that I use frequently. (Well I did have one SRCP-induced failure, but VZW replaced the phone at no cost, even though it was out of warranty).

I overclock only on a few slow applications (basically graphics and video apps.) I don't find myself waiting on anything else - maybe it's because I have only 400 contacts, not 4000? I run all other apps at stock speed, which includes everything on the phone and system side. No problems with battery life or fried processors. Also, the 7135 IS thick compared to just about every current flip or candy bar phone - but you want it bigger? If the screen were bigger, perhaps. Man I'd love a screen like the VX6600... but then it wouldn't be a flip phone.

But the rubber feet sounds like a neat trick. And I agree - backup, backup, backup. The GPS on the 7135 senses where you're furthest away from home, and uses those opportunities to spend its (in my case, very small) quota of unscheduled hard resets.

I too have had my phone for going on two years without any significant problems. Yes I'm still on my original phone. I've had one SCRP message, I believe as a result of being in a poor reception area when I had a low battery. .. I use an older version of FastCPU and I just accelerate the whole thang and it does fine, even my battery life doesn't seem terribly impacted. But if you persuse the forum you'll see everyone has had issues with different overclocking apps, including quick bits. Its a reall YMMV thing.
Great Idea on the feet, I've had that idea as well but couldn't find something that fit the bill. I was tempted to try a little beed of hot glue on each key but I was too chicken.
mg

__________________
Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.

My whole department at work switched over to these phones after we dumped Nextel for poor reception, and we decided to go with a smartphone and this was the one.

In first 2 weeks we had the 7135, I had the battery overheat and the phone reset a few times where I had to reload from a sync. However, that only happened in the first month, for some strange reason its been stable since then.

Verizon is also no longer selling this model to business customers, and is pushing the Blackberry instead. They will, however, give you an account if you can get a 7135 elsewhere.

All that being said, I've found I use the Palm features much more than I did when I had a separate Palm unit (which I never seemed to have on me when I needed it.) So other than the rough start, the phone has been great. I have found the connect time to a number to be sluggish with Verizon, but at least I have reception, which I never did with my old phone.

Agreed with snowy, if you have a separate phone and a PDA usually you're only going to carry one, and that will usually be the phone. Which is what makes a converged device, even one that is neither a great phone nor a great PDA, worthwhile to a certain clientele.

One thing I forgot to mention in terms of Kyocera's quality control (or lack thereof...) I once stood next to someone with a Verizon 7135 like mine. He had zero bars of signal, I had 3 or 4!

I was overclocking the whole thing - 37MHz. Some may recognize that number for what it is...
The overclocking was, by my reckoning, about 1/4 to 1/3 as effective as QuickBits.


I never could figure out how it knew when to best screw me...
Thanks for the info!




I've seen that between the phones that I currently have (I now have three 7135s). The signal strength indicator doesn't seem to have beans to do with actual reception. Even tho the one I have that shows no or one bars in normally 3-4 bar areas - it will still successfully dial and maintain a conversation in a fringe area where my "control" phone (the one that showed 3 or 4 bars) also shows none. And this is a very fringe area - go down the hill and they both drop the signal.
So - you just learn to live with the phone - and learn it quirks. Granted, I use the one with the more accurate signal meter but, that's cause I do lots of work on the road. It's a good reference - but, in my case, it seems to have nothing to do with whether the phone will work or not in a low signal area.




This is one of the many things that QuickBits made an improvement in for me. Possibly more significantly, is the fact that I can hang up in under 30 seconds
I can also enter in account numbers and passwords before the prompt times out

I realize that this is from my perspective as a road-warrior, but the PDA looses a lot of value when not converged with a phone. When I had a PDA and a phone, I also had a notepad and pen. Once I went to the 6035, I lost the notepad. I haven't looked back since.

GPS '911 only'?

Undocumented feature: GPS is not just for 911, but also for 116 (upside-down 911), meaning it will not only summon help when you have an emergency and figure out where you are (911), but will so also figure out where you are, and cause a data emergency without summoning help (116) ...